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the planets up in masters almost surely

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have a plan

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this clearly maybe something there

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you think you know the less you really

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[Music]

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all right higher side chatters we know

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the world is a stranger place than it

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might seem on the surface with unknown

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depths few dare to explore and when the

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stakes were spending too much time

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looking behind the veil our madness and

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paranoia who can really blame them but

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there is a rich history of artists

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musicians writers and creative types

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feeling as though they are being

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compelled to do what they do but they

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find themselves being more conduit than

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creator more vessel than virtuoso and

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fans of HP Lovecraft's work and battled

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over this very point for years are there

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hidden truths or unconscious insights

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woven throughout the work of the father

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of supernatural horror fiction well

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today's returning guest Peter Levin de

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think so and by the end of today's show

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you might be inclined to agree

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Peter of course is the author of many

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books including the great sinister

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forces series we talked about in his

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last appearance which explores this

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possibility of supernatural influence in

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some of America's most trying times from

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a deeper exploration of the Salem witch

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trials and the potential influence of

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ancient Indian burial grounds on a young

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Charles Manson to the alchemical

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interests of America's founders and that

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infamous seance to channel the Council

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of nine in that old farmhouse in Maine

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yes Peter Levin does help to make me see

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the significance and synchronicities

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between places names and dates that

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really make one wonder about the idea of

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ethereal puppet masters and just how

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much influence they might really have

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his latest book is actually his first

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published novel entitled the Lovecraft

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code which branches off the infamous

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Call of Cthulhu and uses a fictional

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narrative as the means of exploring what

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may be some very profound truths it's a

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wild ride and I'm psyched to have him

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back to talk about it a man who finds

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the connective tissue you didn't know

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was there the surge in a synchronicity

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pitrnam an welcome back to the higher

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side and thanks very much glad to be

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here yeah you got it the surgeon of

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synchronicity I like that well great I

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try to be creative but it is getting

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harder all the time and I got a thank

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you for doing this because you become

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one of my favorite authors tackling many

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interesting subjects and unique ways and

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of course the Lovecraft code is no

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exception a lot of listeners probably

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understand this idea that truth can

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sometimes be told easier in fiction it's

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why we love things like the matrix and

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now West world because they address

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concepts that are hard to get

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that directly but might still be pretty

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profound is that some of the reasoning

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behind why you went with a novel this

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time basically yes the idea was to

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provide this fictional narrative in

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order for people to get involved with

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concepts that if I had done this in

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nonfiction and I've been doing it and

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nonfiction for a long time sometimes the

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concepts are hard to grasp because

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there's no there's no bonding with the

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issues you know it's sort of very

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intellectual it's on a different plane

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the beauty of fiction is that you can

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bring some of this very heady

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intellectualizing down to a more

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visceral level to an emotional level

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where you can suddenly see why things

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are important and what the possibilities

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might be I think that was the whole idea

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behind science fiction in its infancy

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anyway was to take some of these hard to

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grass scientific ideas about space and

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time and time travel and space travel

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and all of that and try to make it more

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real try to put human beings in the

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middle of what until then was you know

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scientific speculation but to put us in

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the middle there to say okay if this is

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true this is how our lives will be

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affected and I think that with the

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sinister forces books that you mentioned

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in the other books I've been saying all

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of this but I felt that maybe a novel

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might be a way to introduce some of

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these ideas in a way that people would

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more easily identify with and understand

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and could suddenly see the connections

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falling into place

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mm-hmm great points and I totally agree

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and so for the longest time I've just

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kind of considered Lovecraft to be like

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Edgar Allan Poe 2.0 but what is it about

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him and his writings that intrigued you

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so much well there are a number of

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things I didn't read Lovecraft until

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very late I mean I wasn't one of these

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sort of teenage readers of you know

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gothic horror stuff the the closest I

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got to anything like that probably was

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Dennis Wheatley so I read the Dennis

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Wheatley occult novels you know the

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Satanist and the devil rides out and to

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the devil a daughter and I liked those

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because they were based on real people

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and real events Dennis Wheatley and Ian

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Fleming had both known Aleister Crowley

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personally had considered using Crowley

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in some fashion during World War two

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when they were both worked for British

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intelligence so there was this idea that

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Wheatley had direct contact and direct

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knowledge of some of the occult

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organizations that Crowley was involved

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with ritual magic and the interface

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between that and politics so when I was

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a teenager I was reading Wheatley more

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than anything else for that reason

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because I had that connection and I

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think that's what I was trying to do in

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the Lovecraft code also this idea that

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you know I've seen a lot of this stuff

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up close and personal and I've seen

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these things go on let me try to put

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this in a narrative that people could

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relate to so I didn't I bypassed

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Lovecraft for years I started to read

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Lovecraft seriously recently I would say

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in the last Oh 10 or 15 years maybe

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something like that 20 years I'm not

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exactly sure I figure round the time I

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was writing sinister forces I kind of

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rediscovered Lovecraft and took a deeper

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interest in him and then realized that

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you know Lovecraft

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is accused of you know hyperbole in

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purple prose and you know going to that

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well way too often

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you know these unseen monsters that are

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lurking behind every shadow and then I

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realized studying Lovecraft that his

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family history was really rather strange

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right there and I began to look at ideas

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that maybe Lovecraft's upbringing had a

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much more direct impact on his fiction

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than we realized his father had gone

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insane probably due to syphilis he was a

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traveling salesman and something

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happened to him his mind snapped and he

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died when Lovecraft was quite young but

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then his mother began to develop all

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sorts of neuroses and psychoses at one

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point she's wandering through the house

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and you know talking to unseen things

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behind walls and all that I mean blood

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prep was living with this was living

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with basically characters from his

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fiction and at the same time load

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Lovecraft was an atheist a very

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committed atheist someone who hated

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religion and who loved science and was a

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terribly devoted to scientific

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principles and looked down on

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superstition and looked down on religion

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and yet here he is writing you know

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texts that would become some of the most

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formidable explanations of the ancient

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alien theory and

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you know some of the original material

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that von daniken and others after him

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would pick up but Lovecraft is writing

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about this about you know maybe there

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were people on this planet before us

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maybe they're coming back maybe there

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are people on the planet who can open a

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gate and let them in all of these

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concepts Lovecraft is writing about with

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one hand and on the other he's

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pooh-poohing the entire thing you know

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there was a kind of a schizophrenia in

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Lovecraft's approach it would seem to me

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and this fascinated me like what's this

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all about

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is it possible for instance to be an

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atheist and still believe that there are

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you know alien beings who are

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controlling the situation on our planet

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or had some major impact on our planet

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of course the answer is yes you don't

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have to believe in religion to believe

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in aliens right these things don't come

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for necessarily the same source that's

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another subject for another day but for

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Lovecraft in his writing he was

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identifying various cults that really

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did exist like the Yazidi for instance

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in other groups and tying them into this

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worldview that he had and so I started

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to take a closer look and when I did

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that I realized that Kenneth grant the

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English magician was doing the same

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thing was connecting Lovecraft to

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Aleister Crowley and to ritual magic in

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general using Lovecraft's characters and

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his themes as if they were real and

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exploring that possibility and that was

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fascinating as well and then I realized

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that grant seemed to have missed

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something in all of his work and all of

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his research on Crowley and on Lovecraft

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and that is that Lovecraft's most famous

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story the one I based the novel on the

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call of cthulhu is based on very

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specific names dates and places right

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and left craft is kind of unique in that

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he really does insist that this is what

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happened on this day he gives date month

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and year I mean he's very explicit as to

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when things took place and I find that

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also to be fascinating so I started to

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deconstruct that and that's when I

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discovered that you know Lovecraft's

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famous group of worshipers of Cthulhu in

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the bayous in the swamps outside of New

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Orleans in Louisiana this weird ritual

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took place on Halloween in 1907

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and that date signified something to me

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I mean it jogged my memory and I started

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going back over other material and I

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realized that Aleister Crowley wrote his

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famous holy books on exactly that day on

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October 30 31st and November 1st 1907 at

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the same time that cult was operating in

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New Orleans in Lovecraft's fantasy one

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that he wrote ten years after that no

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more mom's 20 years later love rep is

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writing about this scene and Crowley

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actually was living it and in the holy

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books that Crowley was writing he uses a

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lot of the same imagery that Lovecraft

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would later use in the call of cthulhu

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and I would look at the two paragraphs

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like side by side what they were writing

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and it was stunning that Lovecraft was

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essentially channeling something that

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had happened to Crowley 20 years

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previously and of course I wrote the

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Dark Lord you know a nonfiction book

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based on comparing Lovecraft and Crowley

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and and some anger ant and some of the

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other material so I realized Lovecraft

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was sort of telling us in the call of

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cthulhu as you mentioned in the opening

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that sensitive people artists writers

276
00:10:53,340 --> 00:10:51,670
musicians may actually be seeing things

277
00:10:57,449 --> 00:10:53,350
that are taking place before the rest of

278
00:10:59,220 --> 00:10:57,459
us do they may be sensitive to weird

279
00:11:00,750 --> 00:10:59,230
phenomena that's underneath the surface

280
00:11:03,660 --> 00:11:00,760
the sinister forces that I wrote about

281
00:11:05,550 --> 00:11:03,670
and love crap being an artist himself as

282
00:11:08,189 --> 00:11:05,560
much as he wanted to be a scientist that

283
00:11:09,750 --> 00:11:08,199
atheist loved crap was a writer was an

284
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:09,760
author who it was an imaginative

285
00:11:14,220 --> 00:11:12,010
creative person he was one of those very

286
00:11:15,990 --> 00:11:14,230
people he was writing about and I

287
00:11:17,579 --> 00:11:16,000
believe that in the Call of Cthulhu and

288
00:11:20,100 --> 00:11:17,589
dunnage horror and some of the other

289
00:11:21,509 --> 00:11:20,110
stories he's actually prefiguring what's

290
00:11:23,460 --> 00:11:21,519
going to happen later he's seeing

291
00:11:25,319 --> 00:11:23,470
something that's taking place he's

292
00:11:28,650 --> 00:11:25,329
sensitive to it whether he wants to

293
00:11:31,620 --> 00:11:28,660
admit it or not mm-hmm I think that's an

294
00:11:33,870 --> 00:11:31,630
amazing perspective and it does add some

295
00:11:36,449 --> 00:11:33,880
excitement to his stories and I do like

296
00:11:39,389 --> 00:11:36,459
his stories but I have to say I do know

297
00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:39,399
some diehard Lovecraft fans that rolled

298
00:11:43,199 --> 00:11:40,930
their eyes at me when they heard it was

299
00:11:45,929 --> 00:11:43,209
going to be a topic on my weird STONER

300
00:11:48,030 --> 00:11:45,939
conspiracy show they just don't see the

301
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:48,040
connection but is there anything more

302
00:11:50,980 --> 00:11:49,370
that can be said to hell

303
00:11:53,590 --> 00:11:50,990
make that case for some of those

304
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:53,600
skeptics that there was some unconscious

305
00:11:56,829 --> 00:11:55,370
reporting or something real there's

306
00:11:58,510 --> 00:11:56,839
these connections with Crowley but is

307
00:12:00,670 --> 00:11:58,520
there anything else that might help

308
00:12:03,519 --> 00:12:00,680
nudge people or move the needle in the

309
00:12:05,050 --> 00:12:03,529
direction of taking it seriously that

310
00:12:08,380 --> 00:12:05,060
there is something more to him than just

311
00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:08,390
good stories well as I mentioned briefly

312
00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:11,450
it was Lovecraft who really set the

313
00:12:15,310 --> 00:12:13,730
stage for so much that was going to

314
00:12:17,829 --> 00:12:15,320
follow if it hadn't been for Lovecraft

315
00:12:19,420 --> 00:12:17,839
and his stories about Cthulhu and about

316
00:12:21,579 --> 00:12:19,430
all the other characters in the

317
00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:21,589
so-called mythos if it wasn't for that

318
00:12:25,990 --> 00:12:23,450
we wouldn't have had the morning of the

319
00:12:27,430 --> 00:12:26,000
magician's by Paul's and burgee a 1960

320
00:12:29,769 --> 00:12:27,440
we wouldn't have had Erich von däniken

321
00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:29,779
in 68 or you know the ancient aliens

322
00:12:33,430 --> 00:12:31,730
stories Hyundai History Channel and you

323
00:12:35,500 --> 00:12:33,440
know all of that stuff going on Giorgio

324
00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:35,510
tsoukalos and you know all of his guys I

325
00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:36,890
mean all of this would not have been I

326
00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:39,290
mean Lovecraft saw it and wrote about it

327
00:12:44,019 --> 00:12:41,690
and essentially kind of warned us about

328
00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:44,029
it and he did it in fiction he didn't do

329
00:12:48,610 --> 00:12:46,490
it in nonfiction his nonfiction is kind

330
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:48,620
of predictable and you know he has a lot

331
00:12:52,990 --> 00:12:50,210
of correspondence with a lot of people

332
00:12:55,780 --> 00:12:53,000
he's sort of you know arrogant in some

333
00:12:57,699 --> 00:12:55,790
cases he's definitely pretty racist for

334
00:12:59,890 --> 00:12:57,709
most of his life and he had all of these

335
00:13:01,990 --> 00:12:59,900
other issues going on but with all of

336
00:13:04,930 --> 00:13:02,000
that I think because of that hothouse

337
00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:04,940
atmosphere in which he was raised he was

338
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:07,130
able to basically become a medium for

339
00:13:13,150 --> 00:13:10,250
these ideas Lovecraft if you only view

340
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:13,160
him as as a writer of pop fiction of

341
00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:15,170
gothic horror as they say it or pseudo

342
00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:16,850
gothic horror I mean some people argue

343
00:13:20,350 --> 00:13:18,770
with me over the gothic horror label but

344
00:13:23,980 --> 00:13:20,360
if they look at Lovecraft only as this

345
00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:23,990
guy who wrote for Weird Tales and a

346
00:13:27,970 --> 00:13:25,850
writer who's been sort of dismissed in

347
00:13:30,490 --> 00:13:27,980
this country as below par and sub par

348
00:13:32,079 --> 00:13:30,500
just a kind of hack author you're not

349
00:13:34,870 --> 00:13:32,089
going to see what's really taking place

350
00:13:36,970 --> 00:13:34,880
Joyce Carol Oates of all people wrote

351
00:13:37,990 --> 00:13:36,980
you know and edited a collection of

352
00:13:39,790 --> 00:13:38,000
Lovecraft stories

353
00:13:41,260 --> 00:13:39,800
I mean Joyce Carol Oates is not a

354
00:13:43,540 --> 00:13:41,270
lightweight you know in terms of

355
00:13:46,090 --> 00:13:43,550
academic literature and the modern you

356
00:13:49,090 --> 00:13:46,100
know literati of New York she actually

357
00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:49,100
saw the value in Lovecraft and decided

358
00:13:53,530 --> 00:13:50,930
that she would you know author you know

359
00:13:56,650 --> 00:13:53,540
and edit a collection of his work in

360
00:13:58,210 --> 00:13:56,660
Europe Lovecraft is praised you know but

361
00:14:01,120 --> 00:13:58,220
then so is Jerry Lewis and you know

362
00:14:02,740 --> 00:14:01,130
David Hasselhoff so you know I don't

363
00:14:03,220 --> 00:14:02,750
know what we can say about Europe but

364
00:14:05,230 --> 00:14:03,230
they do

365
00:14:07,930 --> 00:14:05,240
they have this reverence for Lovecraft

366
00:14:10,690 --> 00:14:07,940
because they think that Lovecraft gave

367
00:14:13,150 --> 00:14:10,700
voice to these cosmic sort of fears and

368
00:14:15,850 --> 00:14:13,160
uncertainties that we have maybe he did

369
00:14:18,730 --> 00:14:15,860
it in expertly according to you know

370
00:14:20,290 --> 00:14:18,740
strict literary standards but he did it

371
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:20,300
he did it when no one else was doing it

372
00:14:24,790 --> 00:14:22,850
everybody else was writing you know sort

373
00:14:27,070 --> 00:14:24,800
of predictable science fiction monster

374
00:14:30,930 --> 00:14:27,080
stories Lovecraft went a step further he

375
00:14:34,090 --> 00:14:30,940
was trying to tie his vision into

376
00:14:36,730 --> 00:14:34,100
something more real you know a very real

377
00:14:39,010 --> 00:14:36,740
sense that a scientist or an astronomer

378
00:14:41,740 --> 00:14:39,020
might have of looking at the world and

379
00:14:44,020 --> 00:14:41,750
realizing it's not as stable as we think

380
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:44,030
it is it's not as predictable or as

381
00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:46,250
manageable it's not subject to our

382
00:14:51,700 --> 00:14:48,770
control the universe does not love us

383
00:14:53,770 --> 00:14:51,710
the universe is out to get us if we let

384
00:14:55,330 --> 00:14:53,780
it and that was Lovecraft's approach now

385
00:14:55,990 --> 00:14:55,340
there's a lot of people who would argue

386
00:14:58,570 --> 00:14:56,000
with that

387
00:14:59,860 --> 00:14:58,580
it's all cool man you know you know it's

388
00:15:01,750 --> 00:14:59,870
all good don't worry about it

389
00:15:03,310 --> 00:15:01,760
Lovecraft was not one of those Lovecraft

390
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:03,320
was saying look out there's something

391
00:15:08,020 --> 00:15:05,810
dark out there there is a hidden threat

392
00:15:10,210 --> 00:15:08,030
in in the world in the universe and we

393
00:15:12,850 --> 00:15:10,220
have to confront this thing head-on and

394
00:15:15,010 --> 00:15:12,860
he associated it with ritual magic he

395
00:15:17,170 --> 00:15:15,020
associated it with you know performing

396
00:15:19,900 --> 00:15:17,180
rights in the jungles or in the forests

397
00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:19,910
you know two ancient pagan deities -

398
00:15:25,420 --> 00:15:23,090
Lovecraft society and civilization was

399
00:15:28,090 --> 00:15:25,430
the bulwark against all of this stuff

400
00:15:30,190 --> 00:15:28,100
but at its heart there was a dark streak

401
00:15:32,470 --> 00:15:30,200
and religion was part of that dark

402
00:15:34,420 --> 00:15:32,480
streak religion was a way in which this

403
00:15:36,580 --> 00:15:34,430
darkness would get into us we'd start to

404
00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:36,590
infest everything because religion at

405
00:15:41,230 --> 00:15:39,290
its heart grew out of pagan concepts and

406
00:15:42,940 --> 00:15:41,240
this is what I think bothered

407
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:42,950
Lovecraft's very much and made him very

408
00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:46,010
sensitive so yeah it I could see where

409
00:15:49,690 --> 00:15:47,330
people would say Lovecraft are you

410
00:15:52,660 --> 00:15:49,700
kidding you know what is that all about

411
00:15:54,550 --> 00:15:52,670
but you know when I started writing the

412
00:15:56,500 --> 00:15:54,560
novel and I started writing the novel

413
00:15:58,990 --> 00:15:56,510
some time ago it's changed a lot in the

414
00:16:01,720 --> 00:15:59,000
last few years because of the political

415
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:01,730
situation but I I began to see what

416
00:16:06,030 --> 00:16:03,770
Lovecraft was was writing about if you

417
00:16:09,210 --> 00:16:06,040
really look at the

418
00:16:11,699 --> 00:16:09,220
the resurgence of all sorts of religious

419
00:16:13,019 --> 00:16:11,709
fanaticism and I don't just mean from

420
00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:13,029
the Middle East and from you know

421
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:15,490
Islamic quote-unquote terror groups but

422
00:16:21,269 --> 00:16:18,730
just in general this kind of intensity

423
00:16:23,759 --> 00:16:21,279
that's coming out as a kind of reaction

424
00:16:25,439 --> 00:16:23,769
against materialism and a reaction

425
00:16:28,079 --> 00:16:25,449
against science and a reaction against

426
00:16:30,420 --> 00:16:28,089
technology you see what Lovecraft was

427
00:16:31,170 --> 00:16:30,430
really afraid of and he didn't

428
00:16:33,540 --> 00:16:31,180
understand

429
00:16:35,069 --> 00:16:33,550
I think the roots of this problem he

430
00:16:37,410 --> 00:16:35,079
didn't understand it as maybe it was

431
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:37,420
colonialism that contributed to some of

432
00:16:40,590 --> 00:16:39,370
this you know the idea that the

433
00:16:42,509 --> 00:16:40,600
religions of other people are worthless

434
00:16:44,389 --> 00:16:42,519
their beliefs are superstition our

435
00:16:47,009 --> 00:16:44,399
beliefs are good they're okay they're

436
00:16:47,519 --> 00:16:47,019
scientifically you know justifiable or

437
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:47,529
something

438
00:16:52,079 --> 00:16:50,050
Lovecraft didn't you know love prep saw

439
00:16:54,090 --> 00:16:52,089
a whole different world he saw that the

440
00:16:56,189 --> 00:16:54,100
world that had been the colonies of

441
00:16:58,650 --> 00:16:56,199
Great Britain and of Spain Portugal the

442
00:17:01,139 --> 00:16:58,660
United States Netherlands all these

443
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:01,149
colonies had people that did not believe

444
00:17:05,610 --> 00:17:03,610
the way the Europeans did and there were

445
00:17:07,679 --> 00:17:05,620
more of them and they were rising up in

446
00:17:09,659 --> 00:17:07,689
protest and rising up against the

447
00:17:11,730 --> 00:17:09,669
colonial powers when Lovecraft was

448
00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:11,740
writing World War one had taken place

449
00:17:17,069 --> 00:17:14,770
the Middle East was in chaos lots of

450
00:17:19,169 --> 00:17:17,079
parts of the world were in chaos from my

451
00:17:21,090 --> 00:17:19,179
point of view World War one never ended

452
00:17:23,309 --> 00:17:21,100
we're still fighting World War one it

453
00:17:25,679 --> 00:17:23,319
was just you don't the calendar change

454
00:17:27,090 --> 00:17:25,689
but it wasn't really anything else we're

455
00:17:29,820 --> 00:17:27,100
still fighting those conflicts and I

456
00:17:32,100 --> 00:17:29,830
think Lovecraft saw that as part of the

457
00:17:33,919 --> 00:17:32,110
problem he thought that you know their

458
00:17:37,620 --> 00:17:33,929
belief systems the quote/unquote other

459
00:17:39,780 --> 00:17:37,630
belief systems were a threat to science

460
00:17:41,580 --> 00:17:39,790
to his technology to you know the

461
00:17:43,590 --> 00:17:41,590
Western Way of life and he gave voice to

462
00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:43,600
these concerns in his books with you

463
00:17:47,460 --> 00:17:45,760
know in no uncertain way I mean you can

464
00:17:49,980 --> 00:17:47,470
actually sit there and read it from that

465
00:17:52,649 --> 00:17:49,990
perspective and read Lovecraft's works

466
00:17:54,539 --> 00:17:52,659
as a critique you know of the colonial

467
00:17:57,149 --> 00:17:54,549
peoples and of how we should you know

468
00:17:59,280 --> 00:17:57,159
support colonialism basically to keep

469
00:18:00,600 --> 00:17:59,290
everybody else down so these things are

470
00:18:03,330 --> 00:18:00,610
interesting to me they're fascinating

471
00:18:06,799 --> 00:18:03,340
and if we take his stories and we update

472
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:06,809
them to the 21st century we can see how

473
00:18:11,730 --> 00:18:09,610
nothing much has changed as far as the

474
00:18:13,260 --> 00:18:11,740
basic themes are concerned just the

475
00:18:15,210 --> 00:18:13,270
names of the players may have changed

476
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:15,220
and sometimes not even then but for the

477
00:18:21,060 --> 00:18:18,250
most part the themes remain the same

478
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:21,070
yeah that is a great framing of kind of

479
00:18:25,919 --> 00:18:23,890
his headspace at that time and I'm also

480
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:25,929
pretty intrigued by that worldview a

481
00:18:29,399 --> 00:18:27,490
couple of the elements that I've heard

482
00:18:30,930 --> 00:18:29,409
you talk about before that kind of

483
00:18:33,299 --> 00:18:30,940
convinced me there might be more to this

484
00:18:35,159 --> 00:18:33,309
is in some of his correspondence he

485
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:35,169
mentioned that some of these ideas came

486
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:37,090
from dreams which is something that gets

487
00:18:42,390 --> 00:18:39,250
to that unconscious reporting angle and

488
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:42,400
apparently not only did his parents both

489
00:18:48,330 --> 00:18:45,610
experience insanity but he had access to

490
00:18:50,610 --> 00:18:48,340
some free Masonic and secret society

491
00:18:53,370 --> 00:18:50,620
material via his grandfather I

492
00:18:56,610 --> 00:18:53,380
understand which is another element that

493
00:18:59,190 --> 00:18:56,620
you could say well he had real knowledge

494
00:19:00,510 --> 00:18:59,200
that was kind of off the books and he

495
00:19:03,570 --> 00:19:00,520
might have incorporated some of that

496
00:19:05,370 --> 00:19:03,580
into his stories in worldview book those

497
00:19:06,690 --> 00:19:05,380
are some of the things that I thought

498
00:19:08,460 --> 00:19:06,700
struck a chord with me and also

499
00:19:10,830 --> 00:19:08,470
apparently went going back to the

500
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:10,840
Crowley connection as odd as the name

501
00:19:16,620 --> 00:19:13,330
Cthulhu is there's also a synchronicity

502
00:19:19,350 --> 00:19:16,630
there it seems yeah in those very

503
00:19:23,580 --> 00:19:19,360
stories the very texts that Crowley was

504
00:19:25,860 --> 00:19:23,590
writing in October 1907 the word 2 to

505
00:19:27,930 --> 00:19:25,870
Luke comes up and even Crowley didn't

506
00:19:29,909 --> 00:19:27,940
know what that meant he had no clue but

507
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:29,919
that word came to him to some intensity

508
00:19:32,850 --> 00:19:32,530
and then of course like I say 20 years

509
00:19:34,970 --> 00:19:32,860
later

510
00:19:37,890 --> 00:19:34,980
Lovecraft is writing about Cthulhu and

511
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:37,900
the idea that the same kind of sounds

512
00:19:41,940 --> 00:19:39,610
the same image was coming through in

513
00:19:44,430 --> 00:19:41,950
Lovecraft dreams on the one hand and in

514
00:19:46,740 --> 00:19:44,440
Crowley's ritual workings and the

515
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:46,750
trances that he was in on another I mean

516
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:48,490
Crowley curly wrote the book of the law

517
00:19:52,590 --> 00:19:50,890
that seminal work of his religion had

518
00:19:55,620 --> 00:19:52,600
pretty much the same kind of state and

519
00:19:58,880 --> 00:19:55,630
then that was in 1904 so he's in this

520
00:20:01,799 --> 00:19:58,890
mode Crowley by 1907 he's now writing

521
00:20:03,899 --> 00:20:01,809
profusely all of this other material and

522
00:20:06,990 --> 00:20:03,909
it's all kind of spooky and you know

523
00:20:08,190 --> 00:20:07,000
gothic and it's it in nature and then in

524
00:20:09,510 --> 00:20:08,200
the midst of all of this of black

525
00:20:11,789 --> 00:20:09,520
obelisks and everything else very

526
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:11,799
Lovecraft II and imagery comes the word

527
00:20:16,890 --> 00:20:15,010
to to loop and it's so similar to

528
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:16,900
Cthulhu you have to sit there and think

529
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:19,210
well there's got to be you know they're

530
00:20:23,220 --> 00:20:20,890
hearing something they're hearing

531
00:20:26,010 --> 00:20:23,230
something legitimate and you know the

532
00:20:27,510 --> 00:20:26,020
word Cthulhu itself I started to explore

533
00:20:29,190 --> 00:20:27,520
it in other languages and other

534
00:20:31,260 --> 00:20:29,200
disciplines and it comes out in the

535
00:20:31,919 --> 00:20:31,270
Lovecraft code and I talk about a

536
00:20:34,590 --> 00:20:31,929
Tibetan

537
00:20:36,570 --> 00:20:34,600
word Cthulhu and a Cthulhu is a shaman

538
00:20:38,190 --> 00:20:36,580
you know it's a priest and that is

539
00:20:40,289 --> 00:20:38,200
exactly what Cthulhu was supposed to be

540
00:20:42,930 --> 00:20:40,299
the high priest of the old ones you know

541
00:20:44,460 --> 00:20:42,940
and so in in Tibet you have Cthulhu and

542
00:20:47,580 --> 00:20:44,470
he's not only a shaman

543
00:20:49,259 --> 00:20:47,590
he's like an exorcist shaman and in some

544
00:20:52,409 --> 00:20:49,269
cases a shaman who's come back from the

545
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:52,419
dead so all of these elements are there

546
00:20:57,180 --> 00:20:54,610
in Cthulhu Cthulhu and then eventually

547
00:20:59,820 --> 00:20:57,190
into Tulum and I think that there is the

548
00:21:02,730 --> 00:20:59,830
etymological connection maybe you know

549
00:21:04,580 --> 00:21:02,740
fanciful on my part but the sounds the

550
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:04,590
phonetic similarities are so strong

551
00:21:09,899 --> 00:21:07,570
referring to essentially the same kind

552
00:21:11,940 --> 00:21:09,909
of being the same kind of creature so I

553
00:21:13,769 --> 00:21:11,950
was fascinated by that I started to

554
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:13,779
research a lot of different languages to

555
00:21:18,419 --> 00:21:16,330
see how this would turn up and I found

556
00:21:20,700 --> 00:21:18,429
really amazing you know idea that there

557
00:21:22,619 --> 00:21:20,710
is some kind of consistency here with

558
00:21:24,419 --> 00:21:22,629
this idea we know that in different

559
00:21:26,220 --> 00:21:24,429
cultures you know mama and papa

560
00:21:28,769 --> 00:21:26,230
are almost universal for mother and

561
00:21:31,049 --> 00:21:28,779
father for whatever reason in China was

562
00:21:32,609 --> 00:21:31,059
the same as it is in the West languages

563
00:21:34,139 --> 00:21:32,619
that have absolutely no relationship to

564
00:21:37,169 --> 00:21:34,149
each other and we know that that's

565
00:21:38,879 --> 00:21:37,179
probably due to some kind of phonetic

566
00:21:41,609 --> 00:21:38,889
development in the child that just

567
00:21:44,730 --> 00:21:41,619
happens to be that way but Cthulhu and

568
00:21:46,289 --> 00:21:44,740
Cthulhu to tool that's that's stretching

569
00:21:48,690 --> 00:21:46,299
you know that's stretching it there has

570
00:21:50,700 --> 00:21:48,700
to be some other reason for it and there

571
00:21:52,470 --> 00:21:50,710
maybe there is an organic one but boy

572
00:21:54,389 --> 00:21:52,480
I'd like to know what that is oh yeah

573
00:21:56,970 --> 00:21:54,399
there's probably a key to something

574
00:21:59,489 --> 00:21:56,980
there you know yeah those are exactly

575
00:22:01,950 --> 00:21:59,499
the threads that anybody who is

576
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:01,960
interested in synchronicity understands

577
00:22:06,060 --> 00:22:03,970
the importance that might be behind it

578
00:22:09,090 --> 00:22:06,070
or the impact of it they've got to be

579
00:22:12,570 --> 00:22:09,100
interested in a connection like that but

580
00:22:13,980 --> 00:22:12,580
as for the Lovecraft code itself what

581
00:22:15,629 --> 00:22:13,990
can you tell us about the story you

582
00:22:18,269 --> 00:22:15,639
wrote and how it relates back to the

583
00:22:20,190 --> 00:22:18,279
original call yeah what happened was

584
00:22:21,539 --> 00:22:20,200
kind of an accident of information you

585
00:22:23,850 --> 00:22:21,549
might say the kind of thing that happens

586
00:22:25,799 --> 00:22:23,860
to every once in a while I was reading

587
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:25,809
the call of cthulhu because I was

588
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:27,850
working on the Dark Lord material back

589
00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:31,210
then and I noticed something I had lived

590
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:32,710
in Rhode Island for a number of years

591
00:22:38,159 --> 00:22:35,369
and I knew Providence pretty well and

592
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:38,169
Central Falls and Pawtucket and all the

593
00:22:42,749 --> 00:22:40,570
whole area up there and I started to

594
00:22:45,210 --> 00:22:42,759
realize that when Lovecraft is writing

595
00:22:47,340 --> 00:22:45,220
about the angel family angels

596
00:22:48,659 --> 00:22:47,350
spelled with two L's I said well of

597
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:48,669
course there's an angel Street in

598
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:50,530
Providence as well-known Lovecraft lived

599
00:22:54,990 --> 00:22:53,650
on Angel Street but then something was

600
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:55,000
at the back of my mind with the word

601
00:23:00,390 --> 00:22:57,610
angel and I thought back I used to live

602
00:23:02,190 --> 00:23:00,400
in Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia and for a

603
00:23:04,860 --> 00:23:02,200
while in the middle of the night on

604
00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:04,870
television in Malaysia they would show

605
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:06,960
reruns of Cheers

606
00:23:12,899 --> 00:23:09,970
involve things you know and Cheers takes

607
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:12,909
place in a bar and Malaysia is but

608
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:14,530
predominantly a Muslim country so it was

609
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:16,690
kind of unusual for them to show a show

610
00:23:21,570 --> 00:23:19,330
that was based on a bar where alcohol is

611
00:23:23,580 --> 00:23:21,580
frowned upon so you know it was weird I

612
00:23:25,140 --> 00:23:23,590
was sort of fascinated I hadn't seen

613
00:23:28,230 --> 00:23:25,150
Cheers him you know since they had been

614
00:23:30,110 --> 00:23:28,240
since it out regionally aired now I'm

615
00:23:32,610 --> 00:23:30,120
watching it in Kuala Lumpur and I

616
00:23:34,409 --> 00:23:32,620
realized that there's a name that keeps

617
00:23:35,850 --> 00:23:34,419
popping up as either a writer or

618
00:23:38,490 --> 00:23:35,860
producer or somebody involved with the

619
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:38,500
program and it's David angel with two

620
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:41,770
L's and when I'm researching now back in

621
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:43,450
the States said all the Lovecraft stuff

622
00:23:47,279 --> 00:23:46,210
and the Dark Lord and I'm thinking you

623
00:23:50,010 --> 00:23:47,289
know there's something there let me go

624
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:50,020
and take a look and I started to pull it

625
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:51,730
this thread a little bit and sure enough

626
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:54,130
David Angel was on one of the planes

627
00:23:58,200 --> 00:23:56,650
that slammed into the World Trade Center

628
00:24:01,049 --> 00:23:58,210
his plane hit the North Tower he was

629
00:24:04,590 --> 00:24:01,059
flying from Austin to Los Angeles and he

630
00:24:06,390 --> 00:24:04,600
died of course in that attack on 9/11 so

631
00:24:09,060 --> 00:24:06,400
here was David angel who had written a

632
00:24:11,669 --> 00:24:09,070
lot of the material for cheers for wings

633
00:24:13,260 --> 00:24:11,679
and then for Frazier those were Sarita

634
00:24:15,810 --> 00:24:13,270
shows a is most closely identified with

635
00:24:18,180 --> 00:24:15,820
and he and his wife both died in the

636
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:18,190
North Tower attack so I thought okay

637
00:24:23,970 --> 00:24:20,650
here's an angel dying because of Mad

638
00:24:26,279 --> 00:24:23,980
Arabs you know and and what literally

639
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:26,289
yeah and there's the event that has so

640
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:28,570
colored you know everything in the last

641
00:24:33,870 --> 00:24:32,530
almost 20 years now it was fascinating I

642
00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:33,880
thought what is the connection here I

643
00:24:37,890 --> 00:24:36,370
mean there's a George Gamow angel the

644
00:24:40,980 --> 00:24:37,900
professor who was investigating the

645
00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:40,990
Cthulhu cult in Call of Cthulhu and then

646
00:24:46,770 --> 00:24:42,880
we've asked forward a hundred years and

647
00:24:47,940 --> 00:24:46,780
there's David angel dying on 9/11 and I

648
00:24:49,799 --> 00:24:47,950
thought there's a connection there

649
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:49,809
somehow there's some kind of a visceral

650
00:24:54,750 --> 00:24:52,330
thing and the story started to germinate

651
00:24:56,549 --> 00:24:54,760
from there what if in this era the 21st

652
00:24:57,470 --> 00:24:56,559
century a descendant of that angel

653
00:24:59,870 --> 00:24:57,480
family

654
00:25:02,659 --> 00:24:59,880
who has some kind of guilt over one of

655
00:25:04,669 --> 00:25:02,669
his relatives who died on 9/11 who is

656
00:25:06,740 --> 00:25:04,679
appalled by it who who was a professor

657
00:25:08,539 --> 00:25:06,750
of religion and a believer and somebody

658
00:25:09,980 --> 00:25:08,549
who you know may be a little cynical

659
00:25:13,430 --> 00:25:09,990
about religion but was still a more or

660
00:25:16,820 --> 00:25:13,440
less a theist of some kind now has to

661
00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:16,830
see that take place you know and he's

662
00:25:21,169 --> 00:25:18,510
motivated he sort of the dark sheep of

663
00:25:24,379 --> 00:25:21,179
his angel family and he's motivated to

664
00:25:26,930 --> 00:25:24,389
go and serve in Afghanistan you know in

665
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:26,940
2003 you know he wanted to go into

666
00:25:31,159 --> 00:25:29,490
something 2002 2003 he makes his

667
00:25:33,980 --> 00:25:31,169
services available he speaks Farsi

668
00:25:35,060 --> 00:25:33,990
Arabic or do Pashto he has the

669
00:25:37,220 --> 00:25:35,070
background in the Central Asian

670
00:25:38,990 --> 00:25:37,230
languages and of course they use him and

671
00:25:41,779 --> 00:25:39,000
he's you know he feels he's making a

672
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:41,789
contribution and then at one point he

673
00:25:46,730 --> 00:25:44,250
witnesses something horrible they bring

674
00:25:48,620 --> 00:25:46,740
him back he's in Iraq with the invasion

675
00:25:51,769 --> 00:25:48,630
of Iraq and he's in Mosul in the north

676
00:25:55,310 --> 00:25:51,779
and he witnesses a massacre of 23

677
00:25:58,250 --> 00:25:55,320
yaysies by some Muslims who were really

678
00:25:59,899 --> 00:25:58,260
angry that the Aziz did not allow one of

679
00:26:01,430 --> 00:25:59,909
their daughters to marry a Muslim and

680
00:26:04,279 --> 00:26:01,440
she went ahead and married a Muslim man

681
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:04,289
they stoned her the video of that went

682
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:05,490
out the Muslims got angry and they

683
00:26:09,169 --> 00:26:08,610
killed 23 Yazidis so here is our our

684
00:26:11,570 --> 00:26:09,179
hero

685
00:26:14,149 --> 00:26:11,580
Gregory angel professor of religion and

686
00:26:16,159 --> 00:26:14,159
he's witnessing this Massacre and that's

687
00:26:17,990 --> 00:26:16,169
a real massacre that massacre took place

688
00:26:19,909 --> 00:26:18,000
on that day and that in that place I'm

689
00:26:23,269 --> 00:26:19,919
following Lovecraft's lead here and

690
00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:23,279
using real dates and places and events

691
00:26:28,039 --> 00:26:25,710
so here was the real event this was the

692
00:26:29,779 --> 00:26:28,049
attack in Mosul now we hear about Mosul

693
00:26:31,100 --> 00:26:29,789
constantly in the news today because of

694
00:26:33,860 --> 00:26:31,110
all the fighting around the Islamic

695
00:26:35,509 --> 00:26:33,870
state but back at that time it was the

696
00:26:37,310 --> 00:26:35,519
time when there was the the great surge

697
00:26:39,980 --> 00:26:37,320
and there was the push to get rid of

698
00:26:43,430 --> 00:26:39,990
al-qaeda in Iraq all of this is going on

699
00:26:46,399 --> 00:26:43,440
and Gregory Angel my character witnesses

700
00:26:48,379 --> 00:26:46,409
this and now his faith is completely

701
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:48,389
shaken he realizes that religions are

702
00:26:52,940 --> 00:26:50,010
killing religions there's something

703
00:26:54,919 --> 00:26:52,950
wrong with his worldview and he falls

704
00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:54,929
from grace essentially he drops out I

705
00:26:58,789 --> 00:26:56,370
mean he's still a teacher but he's

706
00:27:00,919 --> 00:26:58,799
trying to cut back on everything and he

707
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:00,929
spends his nights with a gun under his

708
00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:03,090
pillow trying to get drunk and not being

709
00:27:08,810 --> 00:27:05,370
able to and eventually he comes to the

710
00:27:10,909 --> 00:27:08,820
notice of a very mysterious intelligence

711
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:10,919
agency an intelligence agency within an

712
00:27:14,210 --> 00:27:11,250
Intel

713
00:27:16,700 --> 00:27:14,220
agency who then taps him because they

714
00:27:18,980 --> 00:27:16,710
want him to go back to Iraq to help them

715
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:18,990
figure out what's going on with all the

716
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:20,610
new chatter they're hearing about a new

717
00:27:25,610 --> 00:27:22,650
terror group that's growing up and that

718
00:27:28,190 --> 00:27:25,620
has a that's sort of a blasphemous

719
00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:28,200
organization that's uniting all sorts of

720
00:27:31,850 --> 00:27:30,510
disparate groups around it and they're

721
00:27:33,350 --> 00:27:31,860
you know the u.s. intelligence is

722
00:27:35,210 --> 00:27:33,360
extremely nervous about this group they

723
00:27:37,220 --> 00:27:35,220
don't know what it is but it's not the

724
00:27:40,010 --> 00:27:37,230
Islamic state it's something potentially

725
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:40,020
much worse and they want angel to go out

726
00:27:43,940 --> 00:27:41,970
and figure out what's going on and

727
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:43,950
that's how the novel basically sets off

728
00:27:49,190 --> 00:27:47,010
mm-hmm yeah it is a really intriguing

729
00:27:51,410 --> 00:27:49,200
setting especially how it ties in

730
00:27:54,290 --> 00:27:51,420
parallels real world events just like

731
00:27:56,990 --> 00:27:54,300
you open the book with a quote from BBC

732
00:27:59,210 --> 00:27:57,000
News and the very true story of the

733
00:28:01,160 --> 00:27:59,220
Baghdad museum being ransacked during

734
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:01,170
the events in Iraq and I've had a lot of

735
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:02,610
guests talk about this is one of the

736
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:04,650
real reasons we even went there from

737
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:06,810
Joseph Ferrell who suggests the Middle

738
00:28:09,620 --> 00:28:08,250
East is where weapons of mass

739
00:28:11,990 --> 00:28:09,630
destruction quote unquote

740
00:28:14,300 --> 00:28:12,000
from an ancient war could potentially be

741
00:28:17,060 --> 00:28:14,310
buried two others who talk about us

742
00:28:18,890 --> 00:28:17,070
finding clues to humanity's origins in

743
00:28:20,870 --> 00:28:18,900
these cuneiform tablets and it's

744
00:28:23,150 --> 00:28:20,880
intriguing and you gotta admit that

745
00:28:26,090 --> 00:28:23,160
stuff does sound more valuable than oil

746
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:26,100
but it makes a great backdrop for a

747
00:28:32,390 --> 00:28:29,250
novel but how big a part of reality do

748
00:28:34,580 --> 00:28:32,400
you think these elements could be well I

749
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:34,590
think they're they're essential to

750
00:28:38,180 --> 00:28:36,690
understand I mean we're I think a lot of

751
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:38,190
people have this understanding that the

752
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:40,290
Middle East is kind of monolithic you

753
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:41,850
know it's a bunch of Arabs right they

754
00:28:44,570 --> 00:28:42,930
all speak the same language they all

755
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:44,580
have the same religion and they hate us

756
00:28:49,010 --> 00:28:47,250
and it's far more complicated than that

757
00:28:51,020 --> 00:28:49,020
far more complicated than that in fact

758
00:28:53,570 --> 00:28:51,030
it's a much richer tapestry there's all

759
00:28:55,220 --> 00:28:53,580
sorts of cults and sects in the Middle

760
00:28:56,300 --> 00:28:55,230
East and in Central Asia which I point

761
00:28:57,260 --> 00:28:56,310
out in the book to the point where you

762
00:28:59,330 --> 00:28:57,270
might want to throw up your hands and

763
00:29:00,890 --> 00:28:59,340
say it up okay but there's a lot of

764
00:29:02,150 --> 00:29:00,900
different groups and it's important to

765
00:29:04,370 --> 00:29:02,160
understand that there's this tension

766
00:29:06,380 --> 00:29:04,380
between all these various groups who all

767
00:29:08,420 --> 00:29:06,390
have a piece of the puzzle as far as

768
00:29:10,250 --> 00:29:08,430
they're concerned and the azita is one

769
00:29:12,290 --> 00:29:10,260
group in the azita we're targeted you

770
00:29:15,470 --> 00:29:12,300
know they were targeted for destruction

771
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:15,480
in 2014 by the Islamic state I mean it's

772
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:17,610
a genocide that's ongoing against these

773
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:20,250
people who are universally considered to

774
00:29:24,470 --> 00:29:23,250
be double worshippers Crowley mentions

775
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:24,480
them in his work

776
00:29:30,289 --> 00:29:28,650
called William Seabrook was the man we

777
00:29:31,850 --> 00:29:30,299
have to blame for all of us because he'd

778
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:31,860
started repeating all of these stories

779
00:29:36,740 --> 00:29:34,770
about the azita worshipping Satan it's

780
00:29:39,140 --> 00:29:36,750
more complicated than that as usual but

781
00:29:40,970 --> 00:29:39,150
Seabrook made this story and everybody

782
00:29:42,740 --> 00:29:40,980
started to believe it was literally true

783
00:29:44,270 --> 00:29:42,750
the way Seabrook had said it and

784
00:29:46,490 --> 00:29:44,280
Seabrook was a friend of Crowley it goes

785
00:29:48,620 --> 00:29:46,500
back to all of that period of the 1920s

786
00:29:50,299 --> 00:29:48,630
so people started hearing about this

787
00:29:53,060 --> 00:29:50,309
group of devil worshippers in the Middle

788
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:53,070
East and to the Muslims they are devil

789
00:29:56,390 --> 00:29:54,570
worshippers and to the Christians there

790
00:29:58,250 --> 00:29:56,400
are devil worshippers they're the most

791
00:30:00,740 --> 00:29:58,260
besieged people in that part of the

792
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:00,750
world probably are the azita and their

793
00:30:03,409 --> 00:30:02,010
women and children been taken into

794
00:30:05,570 --> 00:30:03,419
slavery you know the men have been

795
00:30:08,780 --> 00:30:05,580
massacred it's it's a horrible thing and

796
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:08,790
yet they may have a piece of the puzzle

797
00:30:11,450 --> 00:30:10,530
as to who we are where we came from

798
00:30:13,820 --> 00:30:11,460
right

799
00:30:16,250 --> 00:30:13,830
the Azizi say they're descended from the

800
00:30:18,350 --> 00:30:16,260
Sumerians you know they insist they're

801
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:18,360
the oldest people on the planet which is

802
00:30:21,530 --> 00:30:20,130
hyperbole you know to an extent but at

803
00:30:23,150 --> 00:30:21,540
least what they're doing is they're

804
00:30:25,460 --> 00:30:23,160
showing their connection back to the

805
00:30:27,980 --> 00:30:25,470
most ancient times their coat of arms

806
00:30:29,390 --> 00:30:27,990
has cuneiform script on it they're

807
00:30:31,430 --> 00:30:29,400
trying to emphasize the fact that

808
00:30:33,530 --> 00:30:31,440
they're the original people they're

809
00:30:35,210 --> 00:30:33,540
what's left of ancient Sumer which is

810
00:30:37,100 --> 00:30:35,220
interesting because the Sumerians

811
00:30:38,870 --> 00:30:37,110
themselves have disappeared they sort of

812
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:38,880
faded out of existence with the

813
00:30:43,669 --> 00:30:40,650
Babylonian takeovers the Acadians and

814
00:30:45,289 --> 00:30:43,679
who were Semitic people the Sumerians

815
00:30:47,860 --> 00:30:45,299
were not Semitic they were not Arabs

816
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:47,870
they were probably closer to Iranians

817
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:51,210
ethnically and the aziz are - i mean

818
00:30:55,039 --> 00:30:53,370
they speak a Kurdish language but they

819
00:30:56,930 --> 00:30:55,049
may be more ethnically rated - Kurds but

820
00:30:58,970 --> 00:30:56,940
the long reason I'm going to all of this

821
00:31:01,220 --> 00:30:58,980
is because we're talking about ancient

822
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:01,230
origins we're talking about the most

823
00:31:05,060 --> 00:31:03,330
ancient origin which is you know the

824
00:31:06,909 --> 00:31:05,070
Middle East Mesopotamia is the cradle of

825
00:31:09,919 --> 00:31:06,919
civilization as we always call it and

826
00:31:13,130 --> 00:31:09,929
it's probably older than we understand

827
00:31:14,539 --> 00:31:13,140
and most of the cuneiform texts that

828
00:31:16,159 --> 00:31:14,549
we've taken out of the Middle East have

829
00:31:18,230 --> 00:31:16,169
not been translated yet the vast

830
00:31:19,820 --> 00:31:18,240
majority have not been there are very

831
00:31:23,150 --> 00:31:19,830
few cuneiform experts who are out there

832
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:23,160
with access to this material so there's

833
00:31:26,930 --> 00:31:24,690
a lot there's a mountain of material

834
00:31:28,970 --> 00:31:26,940
that hasn't been translated we don't

835
00:31:31,070 --> 00:31:28,980
know what that material is and there's

836
00:31:33,710 --> 00:31:31,080
much more besides still out there in the

837
00:31:37,039 --> 00:31:33,720
deserts and in the swamps of Mesopotamia

838
00:31:38,269 --> 00:31:37,049
particularly up in Mosul and near the

839
00:31:40,459 --> 00:31:38,279
ancient town of Nineveh

840
00:31:43,009 --> 00:31:40,469
where some of the most fabulous finds

841
00:31:45,739 --> 00:31:43,019
were made Mosul is extremely important

842
00:31:49,070 --> 00:31:45,749
to the world as far as the repository of

843
00:31:50,959 --> 00:31:49,080
ancient artifacts and ancient texts

844
00:31:53,419 --> 00:31:50,969
Mosul is extremely important and that's

845
00:31:55,759 --> 00:31:53,429
where these CDs themselves were based

846
00:31:57,379 --> 00:31:55,769
just a little bit north of Mosul so

847
00:31:59,779 --> 00:31:57,389
they're connected to that region

848
00:32:02,539 --> 00:31:59,789
for sure to be there 100% right where

849
00:32:04,249 --> 00:32:02,549
that's concerned and you know have very

850
00:32:06,739 --> 00:32:04,259
strange religious things they're not

851
00:32:09,019 --> 00:32:06,749
similar at all to Islam or Christianity

852
00:32:10,279 --> 00:32:09,029
or Judaism there's like elements of all

853
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:10,289
of that but also elements of

854
00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:12,450
Zoroastrianism and there's a serpent

855
00:32:15,829 --> 00:32:14,399
symbol that's you know always there next

856
00:32:18,859 --> 00:32:15,839
to the entrances to their shrines

857
00:32:21,909 --> 00:32:18,869
there's the peacock angel which they

858
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:21,919
call basically their version of God or

859
00:32:26,869 --> 00:32:24,570
God is kind of a problematic term in

860
00:32:29,149 --> 00:32:26,879
Yazidi religion but that let's just say

861
00:32:32,749 --> 00:32:29,159
their version of God is peacock angel

862
00:32:34,579 --> 00:32:32,759
but they also have a sheet on which they

863
00:32:36,139 --> 00:32:34,589
believe is a fallen angel the way

864
00:32:38,419 --> 00:32:36,149
everybody else believes in it Satan

865
00:32:40,099 --> 00:32:38,429
however they feel that Satan will be the

866
00:32:43,669 --> 00:32:40,109
first angel to be welcomed back into

867
00:32:46,310 --> 00:32:43,679
heaven at the last days and so they will

868
00:32:47,930 --> 00:32:46,320
follow Satan in his entourage as Satan

869
00:32:51,109 --> 00:32:47,940
enters heaven when he's forgiven by God

870
00:32:53,479 --> 00:32:51,119
so there's this very complex a religious

871
00:32:55,669 --> 00:32:53,489
system at the Yazidi have as well so

872
00:32:59,180 --> 00:32:55,679
there's all of this you know and that's

873
00:33:00,829 --> 00:32:59,190
just one group in Iran that's just one I

874
00:33:02,269 --> 00:33:00,839
mean there are so many other groups that

875
00:33:04,909 --> 00:33:02,279
have bits and pieces of ancient

876
00:33:07,039 --> 00:33:04,919
Christianity ancient Judaism there's a

877
00:33:08,690 --> 00:33:07,049
group out in Iraq that believe is that

878
00:33:11,989 --> 00:33:08,700
John the Baptist was the real Messiah

879
00:33:14,119 --> 00:33:11,999
not Jesus hmm and their influence on

880
00:33:15,190 --> 00:33:14,129
Freemasonry in the Knights Templar was

881
00:33:18,379 --> 00:33:15,200
very profound

882
00:33:20,479 --> 00:33:18,389
you know the Freemasons celebrate the

883
00:33:23,029 --> 00:33:20,489
John the Baptist days as the holy days

884
00:33:25,729 --> 00:33:23,039
in Freemasonry you know not Christmas at

885
00:33:28,129 --> 00:33:25,739
Easter mm-hmm it's more to the John the

886
00:33:29,209 --> 00:33:28,139
Baptist holidays festivals are important

887
00:33:32,089 --> 00:33:29,219
there's this idea that John the Baptist

888
00:33:32,839 --> 00:33:32,099
was the real Messiah that Jesus was just

889
00:33:34,969 --> 00:33:32,849
one

890
00:33:37,310 --> 00:33:34,979
I mean Baptist John the Baptist baptized

891
00:33:38,690 --> 00:33:37,320
Jesus which essentially meant that he

892
00:33:40,940 --> 00:33:38,700
was the leader and Jesus was the

893
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:40,950
follower yeah so there's this whole idea

894
00:33:43,999 --> 00:33:42,450
there there's a whole group that still

895
00:33:46,159 --> 00:33:44,009
exists there that still believes that

896
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:46,169
and there's Nestorian Christians there's

897
00:33:49,249 --> 00:33:47,970
a Syrian Christians there's all kinds of

898
00:33:51,740 --> 00:33:49,259
other groups in that part of the world

899
00:33:54,620 --> 00:33:51,750
that are being decimated now

900
00:33:57,260 --> 00:33:54,630
the Islamic state so they're wiping out

901
00:33:58,880 --> 00:33:57,270
the traces of the origins which is

902
00:34:00,680 --> 00:33:58,890
something that these this type of

903
00:34:02,060 --> 00:34:00,690
fanatic will do I mean they want to

904
00:34:03,980 --> 00:34:02,070
destroy the Sphinx and the pyramids as

905
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:03,990
well mm-hmm there's this idea this is

906
00:34:09,919 --> 00:34:07,050
all you know a Haram this is all not

907
00:34:11,180 --> 00:34:09,929
kosher right in a way of speaking so all

908
00:34:12,740 --> 00:34:11,190
this has to be destroyed we have to wipe

909
00:34:14,300 --> 00:34:12,750
all of this out there's this concept

910
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:14,310
that we have to make the world clean and

911
00:34:17,629 --> 00:34:16,290
that would have appealed that concept

912
00:34:19,639 --> 00:34:17,639
would have appealed to Lovecraft a great

913
00:34:20,570 --> 00:34:19,649
deal from a fictional point of view you

914
00:34:22,100 --> 00:34:20,580
know here's a group that wants to

915
00:34:24,290 --> 00:34:22,110
cleanse the earth and to do that they

916
00:34:25,879 --> 00:34:24,300
have to wipe out all the pagan remnants

917
00:34:27,860 --> 00:34:25,889
Lovecraft might have been kind of

918
00:34:29,180 --> 00:34:27,870
sympathetic to that point of view or at

919
00:34:32,180 --> 00:34:29,190
least the characters in his stories

920
00:34:35,720 --> 00:34:32,190
might have been so yeah there is this

921
00:34:40,129 --> 00:34:35,730
idea that perhaps there's a philosophy a

922
00:34:41,510 --> 00:34:40,139
texts artifacts in Mesopotamia in

923
00:34:44,180 --> 00:34:41,520
today's Iraq that could be weaponized

924
00:34:46,340 --> 00:34:44,190
that could be used to create something

925
00:34:47,899 --> 00:34:46,350
different to create something new that

926
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:47,909
maybe the Islamic state or any of the

927
00:34:51,350 --> 00:34:49,530
other fanatic groups in that part of the

928
00:34:53,119 --> 00:34:51,360
world would want to find whatever this

929
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:53,129
was and then deep-six it you know

930
00:34:56,720 --> 00:34:54,810
completely hide it or destroy it so that

931
00:34:59,420 --> 00:34:56,730
nobody could find it because it would be

932
00:35:01,310 --> 00:34:59,430
a threat to them the way the Catholic

933
00:35:02,750 --> 00:35:01,320
Church felt for a long time about the

934
00:35:04,430 --> 00:35:02,760
Dead Sea Scrolls yes

935
00:35:06,170 --> 00:35:04,440
you know and the NAG Hammadi texts and

936
00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:06,180
maybe we don't want this material to

937
00:35:10,340 --> 00:35:07,730
come out it's going to ruin our our

938
00:35:12,890 --> 00:35:10,350
hegemony over you know our power our

939
00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:12,900
control over our people maybe there's

940
00:35:16,850 --> 00:35:14,160
something in there that we really don't

941
00:35:19,700 --> 00:35:16,860
want to be shown the NAG Hammadi texts

942
00:35:21,860 --> 00:35:19,710
for sure the Gnostic texts are a direct

943
00:35:23,030 --> 00:35:21,870
problem for the Catholic Church but

944
00:35:24,530 --> 00:35:23,040
they're able to put that off to the side

945
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:24,540
and say well that's nice this isn't

946
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:26,370
that's not really us but the Dead Sea

947
00:35:30,770 --> 00:35:28,650
Scrolls another story mm-hmm and some of

948
00:35:32,300 --> 00:35:30,780
the material and there is potentially

949
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:32,310
dangerous where the church is concerned

950
00:35:37,460 --> 00:35:35,130
so I could see where groups like al

951
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:37,470
Qaeda or the Taliban or the Islamic

952
00:35:41,660 --> 00:35:39,450
state would think that some of this

953
00:35:43,820 --> 00:35:41,670
material is dangerous because it may

954
00:35:47,510 --> 00:35:43,830
call into question their entire

955
00:35:49,550 --> 00:35:47,520
worldview right Muhammad the Prophet was

956
00:35:51,260 --> 00:35:49,560
a descendant of the Koresh tribe he

957
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:51,270
belonged to that very tribe that was in

958
00:35:55,700 --> 00:35:53,970
control of the Kaaba in in Mecca the

959
00:35:57,350 --> 00:35:55,710
black stone that you have to make a

960
00:35:59,690 --> 00:35:57,360
pilgrimage to once in your lifetime if

961
00:36:01,880 --> 00:35:59,700
you're a Muslim his tribe was in charge

962
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:01,890
of that they were in charge of the idols

963
00:36:05,570 --> 00:36:04,290
the 360 idols that were there until he

964
00:36:08,300 --> 00:36:05,580
threw them out but

965
00:36:10,610 --> 00:36:08,310
keresh tribe also came from kotha in the

966
00:36:11,990 --> 00:36:10,620
Middle East from the city that was

967
00:36:14,900 --> 00:36:12,000
supposedly the Gateway to the underworld

968
00:36:17,780 --> 00:36:14,910
right his people came from there when

969
00:36:19,910 --> 00:36:17,790
Muhammad's forces went into Iraq went

970
00:36:22,430 --> 00:36:19,920
into Mesopotamia and they went to the

971
00:36:25,220 --> 00:36:22,440
ancient city of kuta there were hymns

972
00:36:26,990 --> 00:36:25,230
and songs written saying that his people

973
00:36:28,910 --> 00:36:27,000
were coming back the Koresh were coming

974
00:36:31,130 --> 00:36:28,920
back to retake what was theirs so

975
00:36:33,430 --> 00:36:31,140
there's this very strong connection

976
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:33,440
between the origins of Islam and

977
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:35,610
Mesopotamia and kotha and the gate to

978
00:36:39,590 --> 00:36:37,890
the underworld so yeah I could see if

979
00:36:42,620 --> 00:36:39,600
there was something there in the Baghdad

980
00:36:44,660 --> 00:36:42,630
Museum or in the museum's up in Mosul or

981
00:36:47,330 --> 00:36:44,670
just in private collections in the

982
00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:47,340
Middle East that could reinforce these

983
00:36:54,470 --> 00:36:50,400
ideas that would be a serious dangerous

984
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:54,480
blow to the fanatics of Islam mm-hmm man

985
00:36:57,500 --> 00:36:55,770
those are all great points and you

986
00:36:58,910 --> 00:36:57,510
touched on so many questions I had for

987
00:37:01,790 --> 00:36:58,920
you which is great because time is just

988
00:37:03,830 --> 00:37:01,800
flying by but I definitely was curious

989
00:37:05,810 --> 00:37:03,840
about those parallels between the

990
00:37:07,910 --> 00:37:05,820
campaign's of the Holy Roman Empire

991
00:37:09,830 --> 00:37:07,920
against pagans and Gnostics and the

992
00:37:12,140 --> 00:37:09,840
parallels to what's going on with the

993
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:12,150
Yazidi today and you mentioned cootha

994
00:37:15,110 --> 00:37:13,770
and I thought that was interesting

995
00:37:18,020 --> 00:37:15,120
because it also has kind of that

996
00:37:19,970 --> 00:37:18,030
phonetic connection to cthulhu in a way

997
00:37:22,340 --> 00:37:19,980
but it's all really interesting because

998
00:37:25,130 --> 00:37:22,350
in the occult world a major theme seems

999
00:37:26,930 --> 00:37:25,140
to be the quest for old grimoires and

1000
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:26,940
this idea that we've lost our magical

1001
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:28,770
way and that old texts or traditions

1002
00:37:34,190 --> 00:37:31,530
might unlock greater power or insights

1003
00:37:35,690 --> 00:37:34,200
the newer ones or even that we lost the

1004
00:37:38,150 --> 00:37:35,700
human story itself so we look back to

1005
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:38,160
places like ancient Egypt or finds like

1006
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:40,170
the NAG Hammadi library for insights in

1007
00:37:44,150 --> 00:37:41,970
both areas and here we have a group of

1008
00:37:47,030 --> 00:37:44,160
people living today whose traditions

1009
00:37:49,190 --> 00:37:47,040
seem to be potentially just what a lot

1010
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:49,200
of people might be looking for and away

1011
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:51,810
and they're being exterminated yeah

1012
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:54,450
precisely one of the interesting things

1013
00:37:58,130 --> 00:37:56,370
about the Yazidi is that they have two

1014
00:38:01,490 --> 00:37:58,140
books and one of them is called the

1015
00:38:02,990 --> 00:38:01,500
black book and people who have been

1016
00:38:05,420 --> 00:38:03,000
through that part of the world and who

1017
00:38:07,250 --> 00:38:05,430
talked to the Azizi they claim they have

1018
00:38:09,350 --> 00:38:07,260
copies of that book and they publish

1019
00:38:10,930 --> 00:38:09,360
translations of the book that's very

1020
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:10,940
problematic I mean some of the original

1021
00:38:15,850 --> 00:38:14,130
texts of the black book were in the

1022
00:38:17,750 --> 00:38:15,860
possession of a very famous forger

1023
00:38:19,490 --> 00:38:17,760
somebody who was making a lot of money

1024
00:38:20,900 --> 00:38:19,500
on the side selling antiquities

1025
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:20,910
some of which were real some of which

1026
00:38:25,610 --> 00:38:22,890
were or not and so there's a lot of

1027
00:38:27,140 --> 00:38:25,620
controversy over whether or not the

1028
00:38:29,660 --> 00:38:27,150
books the text that we have are the

1029
00:38:32,060 --> 00:38:29,670
genuine Yazidi text because the acedia

1030
00:38:33,830 --> 00:38:32,070
are notoriously afraid of outsiders

1031
00:38:36,170 --> 00:38:33,840
afraid of foreigners I mean they have

1032
00:38:39,170 --> 00:38:36,180
been very insular for so long they don't

1033
00:38:40,790 --> 00:38:39,180
intermarry you cannot convert to Yazeed

1034
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:40,800
ism you cannot become a Yazidi through

1035
00:38:44,930 --> 00:38:42,210
conversion that's not allowed that's not

1036
00:38:47,240 --> 00:38:44,940
permitted which means that basically uzd

1037
00:38:49,430 --> 00:38:47,250
have to marry UCD and you know raise uzd

1038
00:38:50,870 --> 00:38:49,440
children and so whatever secrets there

1039
00:38:51,740 --> 00:38:50,880
are stay within that very tight-knit

1040
00:38:54,950 --> 00:38:51,750
community

1041
00:38:58,310 --> 00:38:54,960
so by exterminating these people we are

1042
00:39:00,560 --> 00:38:58,320
losing if forget even the humanitarian

1043
00:39:02,870 --> 00:39:00,570
aspect of it which is extreme we're also

1044
00:39:05,540 --> 00:39:02,880
losing contact we're losing contact with

1045
00:39:07,190 --> 00:39:05,550
that tradition we need to know what they

1046
00:39:10,250 --> 00:39:07,200
know or as much as they're willing to

1047
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:10,260
tell us and why should they now tell us

1048
00:39:14,030 --> 00:39:12,450
if we're sitting back idly by while

1049
00:39:16,490 --> 00:39:14,040
they're being exterminated right right

1050
00:39:18,740 --> 00:39:16,500
so you know we have to make up our minds

1051
00:39:20,300 --> 00:39:18,750
at some point what is valuable what we

1052
00:39:22,700 --> 00:39:20,310
should defend and what is worth

1053
00:39:24,620 --> 00:39:22,710
defending I'm glad that we did we got

1054
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:24,630
involved in the fight against the

1055
00:39:29,060 --> 00:39:27,090
Islamic state because of the azita

1056
00:39:31,820 --> 00:39:29,070
people don't really remember this but

1057
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:31,830
when their mountain was being besieged

1058
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:33,570
when all the azita are on top of Mount

1059
00:39:37,130 --> 00:39:35,010
Sinjar which is their their sacred

1060
00:39:38,510 --> 00:39:37,140
mountain and the Islamic state forces

1061
00:39:40,580 --> 00:39:38,520
were massing against them to destroy

1062
00:39:41,930 --> 00:39:40,590
them that was finally the point at which

1063
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:41,940
the United States said okay we're going

1064
00:39:45,470 --> 00:39:44,130
to send in no air support and all the

1065
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:45,480
rest of it to start fighting the Islamic

1066
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:49,050
state because of the azita which I found

1067
00:39:55,250 --> 00:39:52,410
when it happened stunning because until

1068
00:39:57,410 --> 00:39:55,260
that time there was no mainstream you

1069
00:39:59,900 --> 00:39:57,420
know recognition of the azita you didn't

1070
00:40:01,460 --> 00:39:59,910
hear that word mentioned anywhere that

1071
00:40:03,350 --> 00:40:01,470
was something you found in Crowley you

1072
00:40:05,060 --> 00:40:03,360
know are you found in a cult literature

1073
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:05,070
you found in in this sort of New Age

1074
00:40:08,930 --> 00:40:07,050
stuff you know that was going up around

1075
00:40:10,490 --> 00:40:08,940
you know Islamic mysticism or Middle

1076
00:40:13,730 --> 00:40:10,500
Eastern mysticism and that sort of thing

1077
00:40:14,930 --> 00:40:13,740
it was a very rare term and suddenly

1078
00:40:17,630 --> 00:40:14,940
it's being used by the State Department

1079
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:17,640
you know as the reason why we have to go

1080
00:40:21,890 --> 00:40:20,130
in against the Islamic state so I found

1081
00:40:23,300 --> 00:40:21,900
that to be fascinating here was the

1082
00:40:25,610 --> 00:40:23,310
Yazidi that Lovecraft was writing about

1083
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:25,620
this hideous devil worshipping cult and

1084
00:40:29,870 --> 00:40:27,810
now we're sending air support to try to

1085
00:40:31,790 --> 00:40:29,880
defend them and so the whole thing

1086
00:40:32,900 --> 00:40:31,800
became I didn't know what world I was

1087
00:40:34,850 --> 00:40:32,910
living in yeah

1088
00:40:37,100 --> 00:40:34,860
suddenly suddenly everything you would

1089
00:40:39,050 --> 00:40:37,110
what you thought was fantasy and you

1090
00:40:40,550 --> 00:40:39,060
know something arcane and something

1091
00:40:42,470 --> 00:40:40,560
mysterious suddenly was becoming

1092
00:40:43,490 --> 00:40:42,480
mainstream mm-hmm you know something

1093
00:40:46,250 --> 00:40:43,500
that we were actually going to send

1094
00:40:47,900 --> 00:40:46,260
troops to defend people that everybody

1095
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:47,910
had been trying to kill for the last

1096
00:40:51,830 --> 00:40:50,010
2,000 years roughly people that have

1097
00:40:53,810 --> 00:40:51,840
been hated and despised by Saddam

1098
00:40:56,060 --> 00:40:53,820
Hussein by some of the more fanatic

1099
00:40:56,990 --> 00:40:56,070
Islamic sects by some of the Christians

1100
00:40:58,640 --> 00:40:57,000
and some you know some of the other

1101
00:41:01,670 --> 00:40:58,650
groups out there they held them in

1102
00:41:03,620 --> 00:41:01,680
terrible suspicion these people and now

1103
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:03,630
suddenly we're out doing whatever we can

1104
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:06,330
hopefully to save them or save as many

1105
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:07,970
as we can so it's an interesting

1106
00:41:13,580 --> 00:41:10,890
reversal of what happened of what

1107
00:41:14,660 --> 00:41:13,590
Lovecraft was writing about in the 1920s

1108
00:41:19,910 --> 00:41:14,670
and what actually is taking place a

1109
00:41:23,990 --> 00:41:19,920
hundred years later but yeah this idea

1110
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:24,000
that we're in Iraq for the oil I think

1111
00:41:28,820 --> 00:41:27,090
that ship sailed a long time ago I think

1112
00:41:30,410 --> 00:41:28,830
I think the oil is no longer as much of

1113
00:41:32,270 --> 00:41:30,420
an issue anymore as it used to be in the

1114
00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:32,280
first place for the United States but

1115
00:41:37,310 --> 00:41:35,040
also I think that the oil is a sideshow

1116
00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:37,320
at the moment at least the oil in Iraq

1117
00:41:40,220 --> 00:41:38,730
is a sideshow a lot of the oil fields

1118
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:40,230
have been destroyed some of them are

1119
00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:42,330
back online but the Islamic states

1120
00:41:45,620 --> 00:41:44,250
trying to sell the oil you know to raise

1121
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:45,630
money for itself like they were selling

1122
00:41:49,790 --> 00:41:48,090
the artifacts also from the museum's all

1123
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:49,800
of this stuff is very messy and very

1124
00:41:55,730 --> 00:41:52,370
complicated but I think the real issue

1125
00:41:59,150 --> 00:41:55,740
for us in that part of the world is this

1126
00:42:02,000 --> 00:41:59,160
is where we all trace our origins our

1127
00:42:04,730 --> 00:42:02,010
origins as a civilization not as Homo

1128
00:42:06,770 --> 00:42:04,740
sapiens but our origins as a civilized

1129
00:42:08,900 --> 00:42:06,780
people we trace it back to that part of

1130
00:42:10,970 --> 00:42:08,910
the world that's where it started even

1131
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:10,980
before Egypt you know so we know that

1132
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:12,810
this area contains something that's

1133
00:42:17,150 --> 00:42:14,970
extremely valuable to us and extremely

1134
00:42:19,730 --> 00:42:17,160
necessary and the people who've lived

1135
00:42:22,970 --> 00:42:19,740
there for thousands of years are the

1136
00:42:24,620 --> 00:42:22,980
people who know better than we do what

1137
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:24,630
it is that's so valuable there they may

1138
00:42:28,490 --> 00:42:26,610
not even know that they know but they do

1139
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:28,500
know they have access they know where

1140
00:42:31,850 --> 00:42:30,210
the the shrines are they know where the

1141
00:42:33,950 --> 00:42:31,860
underground stuff is they know where the

1142
00:42:35,540 --> 00:42:33,960
texts are they know what the stories

1143
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:35,550
they've been passed down generation by

1144
00:42:39,410 --> 00:42:37,410
generation are they know this better

1145
00:42:41,390 --> 00:42:39,420
than we do and we're allowing them to be

1146
00:42:43,820 --> 00:42:41,400
slaughtered and that's that is really

1147
00:42:45,890 --> 00:42:43,830
terrible for us in general for the human

1148
00:42:46,860 --> 00:42:45,900
race you know in general we need to know

1149
00:42:49,220 --> 00:42:46,870
what that's all about

1150
00:42:52,860 --> 00:42:49,230
need to know what they know amen and

1151
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:52,870
this is kind of a sidetrack or a tangent

1152
00:42:57,030 --> 00:42:55,210
but when it comes to esoteric or magical

1153
00:42:59,520 --> 00:42:57,040
themes that I get to talk to you about

1154
00:43:01,470 --> 00:42:59,530
with guests it's often very much in

1155
00:43:04,050 --> 00:43:01,480
regards to either secret societies

1156
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:04,060
Aleister Crowley or Egypt but I'm

1157
00:43:09,510 --> 00:43:07,170
starting to feel like voodoo or the

1158
00:43:10,980 --> 00:43:09,520
afro-caribbean traditions should get a

1159
00:43:12,990 --> 00:43:10,990
little more attention and they do in

1160
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:13,000
Lovecraft's work but can you give us any

1161
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:15,010
insight into the magic of those

1162
00:43:18,450 --> 00:43:16,690
traditions or how they might be

1163
00:43:20,750 --> 00:43:18,460
different from others that were more

1164
00:43:24,300 --> 00:43:20,760
familiar with sure I mean that there's

1165
00:43:26,250 --> 00:43:24,310
Crowley's weakness in all of this his

1166
00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:26,260
own book of the law said you know you're

1167
00:43:29,460 --> 00:43:27,730
supposed to teach the obeah and the

1168
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:29,470
Wonga right they're references to

1169
00:43:33,780 --> 00:43:31,450
afro-caribbean religion and Curly just

1170
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:33,790
never went there so Kenneth grant picked

1171
00:43:36,330 --> 00:43:35,890
up the mantle there a little bit and of

1172
00:43:39,060 --> 00:43:36,340
course

1173
00:43:40,950 --> 00:43:39,070
Michele Betio based in Chicago was very

1174
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:40,960
much involved in voodoo and trying to

1175
00:43:46,500 --> 00:43:44,050
relate afro-caribbean religion to Kalama

1176
00:43:49,500 --> 00:43:46,510
and to you know modern esotericism and

1177
00:43:53,100 --> 00:43:49,510
all of that and it's another fascinating

1178
00:43:55,830 --> 00:43:53,110
aspect of research because we are

1179
00:43:59,340 --> 00:43:55,840
trained to think of religions in terms

1180
00:44:01,050 --> 00:43:59,350
of scriptures and in terms of texts it

1181
00:44:03,540 --> 00:44:01,060
took us a long time in the West to

1182
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:03,550
realize that not all texts are written

1183
00:44:08,730 --> 00:44:06,130
down you can have an oral text as well

1184
00:44:11,220 --> 00:44:08,740
and because they're not written down we

1185
00:44:14,070 --> 00:44:11,230
ignored them it was like this blind spot

1186
00:44:17,070 --> 00:44:14,080
that we had but for instance in Yoruba

1187
00:44:18,510 --> 00:44:17,080
religion you have Aoife and you have

1188
00:44:20,970 --> 00:44:18,520
what's known as the table of e fo which

1189
00:44:23,250 --> 00:44:20,980
is their divination system and it's

1190
00:44:25,740 --> 00:44:23,260
extremely complex it's much more complex

1191
00:44:27,780 --> 00:44:25,750
than the e Ching it's four times more

1192
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:27,790
complex than the aging and not a word

1193
00:44:31,790 --> 00:44:30,010
was ever written down by the aruba

1194
00:44:35,070 --> 00:44:31,800
diviners it was all memorized

1195
00:44:38,940 --> 00:44:35,080
they took years and years of training to

1196
00:44:42,450 --> 00:44:38,950
memorize every one of those 256 oh do as

1197
00:44:45,660 --> 00:44:42,460
they call 256 binary figures dots and

1198
00:44:48,300 --> 00:44:45,670
dashes basically 256 different ones they

1199
00:44:50,490 --> 00:44:48,310
had to memorize them memorize the deity

1200
00:44:51,540 --> 00:44:50,500
that was associated with each one with

1201
00:44:53,550 --> 00:44:51,550
the colors and all the other

1202
00:44:55,950 --> 00:44:53,560
correspondences and the rituals and the

1203
00:44:58,560 --> 00:44:55,960
stories and traditions with each of 256

1204
00:45:00,150 --> 00:44:58,570
figures and it was only when they had

1205
00:45:00,780 --> 00:45:00,160
mastered that could they be a

1206
00:45:03,330 --> 00:45:00,790
practitioner

1207
00:45:06,510 --> 00:45:03,340
reviva this kind of complexity and

1208
00:45:09,530 --> 00:45:06,520
richness was ignored by the West for a

1209
00:45:12,390 --> 00:45:09,540
very long time and yet you can go to

1210
00:45:14,850 --> 00:45:12,400
santaros you know Santeria priests or

1211
00:45:17,250 --> 00:45:14,860
priestesses on terrace in in Miami down

1212
00:45:19,530 --> 00:45:17,260
here in Florida or anywhere any major

1213
00:45:21,900 --> 00:45:19,540
city and they'll be throwing seashells

1214
00:45:23,910 --> 00:45:21,910
right these calorie shells which is the

1215
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:23,920
descendant of that system you know it's

1216
00:45:27,390 --> 00:45:25,210
basically the same system just a

1217
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:27,400
simplified version of it and that's just

1218
00:45:32,670 --> 00:45:30,370
one aspect that complex system and it's

1219
00:45:34,860 --> 00:45:32,680
a it's a very complex system and it's

1220
00:45:36,540 --> 00:45:34,870
two hundred and fifty six figures which

1221
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:36,550
then relate to two hundred and fifty six

1222
00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:40,210
squares on the Enochian tablets the

1223
00:45:45,300 --> 00:45:42,730
angelic the watchtowers also we're going

1224
00:45:46,770 --> 00:45:45,310
to give us 256 except for the cross in

1225
00:45:49,620 --> 00:45:46,780
the middle which is the other twenty

1226
00:45:51,300 --> 00:45:49,630
squares a tablet of Union but the 256

1227
00:45:53,700 --> 00:45:51,310
those are all the elemental squares of

1228
00:45:55,500 --> 00:45:53,710
the for tablets and if you start to see

1229
00:45:57,750 --> 00:45:55,510
as I have in my own writing and I'm

1230
00:45:59,370 --> 00:45:57,760
working on a much larger book that would

1231
00:46:01,950 --> 00:45:59,380
bring all this together there's a

1232
00:46:04,260 --> 00:46:01,960
consistency behind it there is something

1233
00:46:08,100 --> 00:46:04,270
that's very very deep that was a

1234
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:08,110
treasure in Africa you know and unknown

1235
00:46:11,550 --> 00:46:10,330
outside of Africa due to the fact that

1236
00:46:13,350 --> 00:46:11,560
we just felt these people were

1237
00:46:14,790 --> 00:46:13,360
superstitious and since they didn't have

1238
00:46:15,420 --> 00:46:14,800
any writing they couldn't have anything

1239
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:15,430
of value

1240
00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:19,450
so the afro-caribbean material to me is

1241
00:46:25,140 --> 00:46:21,730
if anything more fascinating because

1242
00:46:27,510 --> 00:46:25,150
it's real living religion but it's also

1243
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:27,520
real living magic you know the two have

1244
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:29,890
not been separated in an afro-caribbean

1245
00:46:34,530 --> 00:46:32,130
religion so voodoo Santeria Palo Mayombe

1246
00:46:36,030 --> 00:46:34,540
condom bleh all the other groups this

1247
00:46:38,070 --> 00:46:36,040
represents something very real something

1248
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:38,080
very alive something that pertains to a

1249
00:46:43,050 --> 00:46:40,210
human being living in the world today as

1250
00:46:45,150 --> 00:46:43,060
far as you know realistic expectations

1251
00:46:46,950 --> 00:46:45,160
and concerns but there's also the do

1252
00:46:49,410 --> 00:46:46,960
very deep spiritual element and a

1253
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:49,420
mystical element as well so I've spent

1254
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:52,690
some time among these groups and among

1255
00:46:57,060 --> 00:46:54,850
people who are practitioners of those

1256
00:46:59,960 --> 00:46:57,070
groups and I've had at one point someone

1257
00:47:01,740 --> 00:46:59,970
actually using the table of Aoife

1258
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:01,750
someone who didn't know me very well

1259
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:03,610
then this was many years ago

1260
00:47:08,100 --> 00:47:06,010
casting the coins or the shells rather

1261
00:47:09,720 --> 00:47:08,110
on the on the wooden table it's a

1262
00:47:14,220 --> 00:47:09,730
circular table with some of the figures

1263
00:47:17,310 --> 00:47:14,230
carved into it and so accurately

1264
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:17,320
representing not only my present

1265
00:47:22,109 --> 00:47:19,210
circumstances but understanding the past

1266
00:47:24,690 --> 00:47:22,119
very specifically and in the future you

1267
00:47:26,700 --> 00:47:24,700
know all in one toy at one moment and I

1268
00:47:28,470 --> 00:47:26,710
asked at the end of it I was sort of

1269
00:47:30,270 --> 00:47:28,480
shocked that this person was able to do

1270
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:30,280
that and I had been to fortune tellers

1271
00:47:33,660 --> 00:47:31,570
and astrologers and everything else you

1272
00:47:36,630 --> 00:47:33,670
know so I wasn't a stranger to this but

1273
00:47:38,220 --> 00:47:36,640
this was sort of uncanny and so I asked

1274
00:47:40,319 --> 00:47:38,230
the guy how did this happen and he said

1275
00:47:42,870 --> 00:47:40,329
well it's nothing to do with psychic

1276
00:47:44,579 --> 00:47:42,880
ability at all he said there I'm not

1277
00:47:45,720 --> 00:47:44,589
psychic I have no special abilities it's

1278
00:47:48,210 --> 00:47:45,730
the system itself

1279
00:47:51,300 --> 00:47:48,220
that's psychic essentially the system

1280
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:51,310
itself is spooky and that sort of

1281
00:47:55,530 --> 00:47:53,410
changed my thinking on a lot of this you

1282
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:55,540
know so I thought ok let me start

1283
00:47:59,069 --> 00:47:57,130
looking at these systems and so the

1284
00:48:01,200 --> 00:47:59,079
afro-caribbean systems are very rich and

1285
00:48:02,490 --> 00:48:01,210
very very powerful they're very messy

1286
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:02,500
from our point of view there's just too

1287
00:48:06,450 --> 00:48:04,690
many gods and goddesses and and too much

1288
00:48:08,370 --> 00:48:06,460
stuff going on and there's too many

1289
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:08,380
herbs and materials that we don't

1290
00:48:12,089 --> 00:48:10,570
understand or know and all kinds of

1291
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:12,099
things that me it's an entire culture

1292
00:48:17,460 --> 00:48:14,530
and for us just to sort of make

1293
00:48:19,980 --> 00:48:17,470
arbitrary judgments on it is is wrong I

1294
00:48:22,020 --> 00:48:19,990
mean you're missing most of it 90% of it

1295
00:48:24,150 --> 00:48:22,030
but it still is worthwhile looking there

1296
00:48:26,819 --> 00:48:24,160
is the afro-caribbean stuff I bring up

1297
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:26,829
in the Lovecraft code it's going to be

1298
00:48:31,500 --> 00:48:29,290
expanded greatly in the second volume

1299
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:31,510
the sequel to Lovecraft code which is

1300
00:48:35,130 --> 00:48:33,970
called dunnage we're done which which

1301
00:48:37,020 --> 00:48:35,140
will be coming out around this time next

1302
00:48:38,940 --> 00:48:37,030
year so you'll have more of the New

1303
00:48:40,980 --> 00:48:38,950
Orleans aspect of these things they'll

1304
00:48:43,710 --> 00:48:40,990
go into the afro-caribbean much more to

1305
00:48:46,290 --> 00:48:43,720
try to show how that's related to the

1306
00:48:47,990 --> 00:48:46,300
the cults in the in Central Asia in the

1307
00:48:51,300 --> 00:48:48,000
Middle East what they have in common

1308
00:48:53,130 --> 00:48:51,310
some of the basic things that all occult

1309
00:48:55,230 --> 00:48:53,140
groups and secret societies have in

1310
00:48:58,920 --> 00:48:55,240
common so you know there's more of that

1311
00:49:00,690 --> 00:48:58,930
to come in in the next volume mmm that's

1312
00:49:02,910 --> 00:49:00,700
awesome man yeah definitely a lot of

1313
00:49:04,079 --> 00:49:02,920
mining for truth probably left to do

1314
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:04,089
therefore anyone who is sick of

1315
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:06,970
rehashing Greek and Roman mythology I

1316
00:49:11,339 --> 00:49:08,650
mean there's a lot more people in the

1317
00:49:13,500 --> 00:49:11,349
world oh yeah and you know just to get

1318
00:49:15,990 --> 00:49:13,510
back to the Lovecraft code just like in

1319
00:49:18,089 --> 00:49:16,000
sinister forces the nexus of names and

1320
00:49:20,010 --> 00:49:18,099
places and dates is a huge part of this

1321
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:20,020
book and where a lot of the truth

1322
00:49:25,829 --> 00:49:23,290
contained in it lies and I guess a good

1323
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:25,839
example this might be the elements that

1324
00:49:29,850 --> 00:49:27,610
take place in Florida or this

1325
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:29,860
bizarre German guy named Karl right oh

1326
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:32,530
yeah he's one of my favorite characters

1327
00:49:37,260 --> 00:49:35,650
man this this guy I mean I've been to

1328
00:49:39,140 --> 00:49:37,270
Key West a number of times and stuff and

1329
00:49:41,190 --> 00:49:39,150
you know you you hear stories and

1330
00:49:43,620 --> 00:49:41,200
eventually people have written about him

1331
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:43,630
a little bit this is a real person Karl

1332
00:49:48,810 --> 00:49:46,930
tonsillar or well he has had a number of

1333
00:49:51,240 --> 00:49:48,820
different names but Karl towns ler will

1334
00:49:54,810 --> 00:49:51,250
call him at 4:00 now Karl was a German

1335
00:49:57,030 --> 00:49:54,820
who is famous in Key West because at one

1336
00:50:00,780 --> 00:49:57,040
point he fell in love with a Cuban woman

1337
00:50:04,410 --> 00:50:00,790
a very young Cuban woman Maria who died

1338
00:50:06,510 --> 00:50:04,420
of tuberculosis he tried to save her he

1339
00:50:08,700 --> 00:50:06,520
was not a doctor necessarily he worked

1340
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:08,710
at a Marine Hospital in Key West he was

1341
00:50:12,540 --> 00:50:11,290
a an x-ray technician mostly we're not

1342
00:50:14,430 --> 00:50:12,550
even sure where he got that training but

1343
00:50:16,380 --> 00:50:14,440
anyway he he fell in love with this

1344
00:50:18,390 --> 00:50:16,390
woman and he tried to heal her his own

1345
00:50:20,430 --> 00:50:18,400
way and of course it just didn't work it

1346
00:50:22,740 --> 00:50:20,440
didn't happen she died he built her a

1347
00:50:25,950 --> 00:50:22,750
mausoleum in Key West

1348
00:50:27,630 --> 00:50:25,960
a beautiful mausoleum that he in turn

1349
00:50:29,430 --> 00:50:27,640
her the family sort of allowed him to do

1350
00:50:31,620 --> 00:50:29,440
this he interred her in this mausoleum

1351
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:31,630
but what the family didn't know was that

1352
00:50:35,820 --> 00:50:33,370
the mausoleum was specially constructed

1353
00:50:37,980 --> 00:50:35,830
it was like something out of I don't

1354
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:37,990
know dr. phibes rides again or something

1355
00:50:42,060 --> 00:50:39,970
I mean this is a weird situation where

1356
00:50:45,060 --> 00:50:42,070
he had this woman hooked up to all sorts

1357
00:50:46,830 --> 00:50:45,070
of tubes and devices he was trying to

1358
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:46,840
maintain the body's integrity for as

1359
00:50:51,420 --> 00:50:48,850
long as possible so that he could bring

1360
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:51,430
her back to life as far as he was

1361
00:50:55,140 --> 00:50:53,890
concerned she wasn't exactly dead and he

1362
00:50:57,330 --> 00:50:55,150
didn't believe that death really took

1363
00:50:58,710 --> 00:50:57,340
place the way we think it does so he was

1364
00:51:00,660 --> 00:50:58,720
trying to keep this body alive this

1365
00:51:02,790 --> 00:51:00,670
woman's body life for as long as

1366
00:51:04,410 --> 00:51:02,800
possible and there were rumors that he

1367
00:51:06,510 --> 00:51:04,420
had a telephone system put into the

1368
00:51:08,310 --> 00:51:06,520
mausoleum so she could call him you know

1369
00:51:10,710 --> 00:51:08,320
she came out of her death trance

1370
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:10,720
whatever it was she was in so he was

1371
00:51:13,830 --> 00:51:12,130
doing all of his stuff and eventually he

1372
00:51:15,570 --> 00:51:13,840
was found out they were going to come

1373
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:15,580
and break open the mausoleum

1374
00:51:21,030 --> 00:51:17,890
he took the body out he put it on on a

1375
00:51:22,980 --> 00:51:21,040
kind of a little wagon and he dragged it

1376
00:51:25,500 --> 00:51:22,990
over to his house and he was building an

1377
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:25,510
airplane in his backyard or in the

1378
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:27,610
parking lot at one point of the hospital

1379
00:51:31,770 --> 00:51:29,770
he was going to fly her you know to some

1380
00:51:33,720 --> 00:51:31,780
South Sea Island once she was alive

1381
00:51:35,190 --> 00:51:33,730
again I mean he was doing all this very

1382
00:51:37,260 --> 00:51:35,200
deliberately they found out about it

1383
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:37,270
eventually they arrested him they tried

1384
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:39,610
to get him for stealing a corpse or

1385
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:41,170
defiling a corpus but

1386
00:51:44,580 --> 00:51:43,330
the statute of limitations ran out he

1387
00:51:45,630 --> 00:51:44,590
was getting all these letters from women

1388
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:45,640
who wanted to marry him because they

1389
00:51:49,890 --> 00:51:47,410
thought it was such a romantic thing

1390
00:51:51,900 --> 00:51:49,900
that he did and eventually he died sort

1391
00:51:54,050 --> 00:51:51,910
of an obscurity he went back he actually

1392
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:54,060
had a family up in Zephyrhills Florida

1393
00:51:59,250 --> 00:51:56,530
so he eventually left Key West and went

1394
00:52:01,020 --> 00:51:59,260
up there so that would have been the end

1395
00:52:03,180 --> 00:52:01,030
of it except you know knowing me I had

1396
00:52:06,660 --> 00:52:03,190
to pull it a few more threads and it

1397
00:52:09,270 --> 00:52:06,670
turns out that he actually wrote himself

1398
00:52:12,180 --> 00:52:09,280
his own account of this whole thing in

1399
00:52:14,550 --> 00:52:12,190
one of Raymond Palmer's magazines you

1400
00:52:16,650 --> 00:52:14,560
know the weird tales sort of amazing

1401
00:52:18,780 --> 00:52:16,660
stories kind of magazines the same

1402
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:18,790
editor that published the Kenneth Arnold

1403
00:52:23,370 --> 00:52:20,650
stuff you know about Maury island a

1404
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:23,380
little bit so here's here's our guy

1405
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:25,090
Carlton's there writing this entire

1406
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:27,850
story about his entire life and then you

1407
00:52:31,530 --> 00:52:29,530
know trying to save Maria all the steps

1408
00:52:33,570 --> 00:52:31,540
that he took and Maria coming to life

1409
00:52:35,130 --> 00:52:33,580
briefly here and then you know opening

1410
00:52:37,050 --> 00:52:35,140
her eyes or saying something I'm he's

1411
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:37,060
going this entire story is like - I

1412
00:52:40,590 --> 00:52:39,130
think it was in two installments and it

1413
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:40,600
was a very very long or more than that

1414
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:42,850
very long story and I had to read

1415
00:52:47,490 --> 00:52:44,770
through the entire thing because he

1416
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:47,500
talks about his early days and he grew

1417
00:52:52,410 --> 00:52:49,810
up in Germany he was in the South

1418
00:52:54,570 --> 00:52:52,420
Pacific or in Southeast Asia at the

1419
00:52:56,240 --> 00:52:54,580
outbreak of World War one in Australia

1420
00:52:58,710 --> 00:52:56,250
he was put into a prisoner of war camp

1421
00:53:00,810 --> 00:52:58,720
because he was a German national he

1422
00:53:02,310 --> 00:53:00,820
spent his time there but his stories was

1423
00:53:05,370 --> 00:53:02,320
that he kept on seeing this woman this

1424
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:05,380
pigment this ghost in Europe you know in

1425
00:53:09,420 --> 00:53:07,570
various castles that he thought that was

1426
00:53:11,940 --> 00:53:09,430
his soulmate or something and she was

1427
00:53:13,830 --> 00:53:11,950
evidently an ancient alchemists of his

1428
00:53:15,870 --> 00:53:13,840
family going back several generations

1429
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:15,880
according to his story and then he

1430
00:53:20,850 --> 00:53:17,530
claimed that as he was growing up he

1431
00:53:23,580 --> 00:53:20,860
befriended many famous paranormal

1432
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:23,590
experts at the time parapsychologists

1433
00:53:27,240 --> 00:53:25,690
around the turn of the century as I

1434
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:27,250
found out later he was making that up

1435
00:53:30,270 --> 00:53:28,690
but the names that he used were real

1436
00:53:34,470 --> 00:53:30,280
they're real individuals that I was able

1437
00:53:36,090 --> 00:53:34,480
to trace and then he he died in India or

1438
00:53:38,100 --> 00:53:36,100
was believed to have died in India he

1439
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:38,110
came to in the morgue

1440
00:53:42,660 --> 00:53:40,210
just in time you know he had all these

1441
00:53:44,430 --> 00:53:42,670
stories all these wild stories and he

1442
00:53:45,930 --> 00:53:44,440
was an organist he built his own organ

1443
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:45,940
that he was playing in Australia in the

1444
00:53:49,490 --> 00:53:47,650
prison camp or something all kinds of

1445
00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:49,500
stories all kinds of wild stuff

1446
00:53:54,930 --> 00:53:51,730
eventually he goes back to Germany in

1447
00:53:56,550 --> 00:53:54,940
the 1920s Germany of course is in

1448
00:53:58,200 --> 00:53:56,560
wins after World War one all kinds of

1449
00:54:00,930 --> 00:53:58,210
things are falling apart he's there

1450
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:00,940
during the rise of the Nazi Party now

1451
00:54:05,700 --> 00:54:03,490
that much we know is true or we believe

1452
00:54:09,059 --> 00:54:05,710
it's true anyway from his own account he

1453
00:54:11,190 --> 00:54:09,069
takes off from Germany and goes to Cuba

1454
00:54:13,079 --> 00:54:11,200
just for a couple of days because he's

1455
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:13,089
really on his way to Key West to Florida

1456
00:54:18,030 --> 00:54:15,970
he has family now in Florida so he makes

1457
00:54:21,180 --> 00:54:18,040
his way to Florida stays in Key West

1458
00:54:23,370 --> 00:54:21,190
gets a job as an x-ray technician at the

1459
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:23,380
Marine Hospital the US Marine Hospital

1460
00:54:27,059 --> 00:54:26,530
in Key West and from there the rest is

1461
00:54:30,300 --> 00:54:27,069
history

1462
00:54:32,130 --> 00:54:30,310
so as I'm looking at the dates and

1463
00:54:34,980 --> 00:54:32,140
places I realized that he's in Key West

1464
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:34,990
at the same time that Lovecraft visits

1465
00:54:39,690 --> 00:54:38,170
Key West boom so Lovecraft goes down to

1466
00:54:41,849 --> 00:54:39,700
Key West and he wants to get a boat to

1467
00:54:43,559 --> 00:54:41,859
Cuba he doesn't have enough money to get

1468
00:54:45,420 --> 00:54:43,569
the boat to Cuba so he stays in Key West

1469
00:54:48,510 --> 00:54:45,430
for a couple of days I have absolutely

1470
00:54:51,300 --> 00:54:48,520
no evidence at all that Lovecraft and

1471
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:51,310
Carlton's allure ever met but Key West

1472
00:54:55,349 --> 00:54:52,930
was a small town in the space you know

1473
00:54:57,390 --> 00:54:55,359
and he was an eccentric they were both

1474
00:54:59,520 --> 00:54:57,400
eccentric characters Hemingway was

1475
00:55:01,470 --> 00:54:59,530
actually in town the same time Hemingway

1476
00:55:03,150 --> 00:55:01,480
was buying his famous house there which

1477
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:03,160
is still there in Key West there was a

1478
00:55:07,230 --> 00:55:04,930
lot of you know odd people it was an

1479
00:55:08,819 --> 00:55:07,240
artist's artistic kind of group that was

1480
00:55:11,130 --> 00:55:08,829
living down there starting to develop a

1481
00:55:12,809 --> 00:55:11,140
kind of a bohemian sort of community and

1482
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:12,819
Lovecraft was down there and Carl was

1483
00:55:16,559 --> 00:55:14,650
down there and Lovecraft had written

1484
00:55:19,319 --> 00:55:16,569
this series of stories called Herbert

1485
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:19,329
West re-animator about a guy who's

1486
00:55:24,420 --> 00:55:21,970
trying to reanimate a corpse and here's

1487
00:55:26,190 --> 00:55:24,430
Carl trying to reanimate a corpse so I

1488
00:55:28,319 --> 00:55:26,200
put the two together I said wouldn't it

1489
00:55:31,410 --> 00:55:28,329
be interesting if Carl and Lovecraft met

1490
00:55:33,359 --> 00:55:31,420
two eccentrics you know to sort of

1491
00:55:35,550 --> 00:55:33,369
people who are outcasts they're

1492
00:55:37,530 --> 00:55:35,560
Outsiders in their own worlds and both

1493
00:55:39,270 --> 00:55:37,540
with pretensions to science you know

1494
00:55:40,380 --> 00:55:39,280
what if they actually met what would

1495
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:40,390
they have talked about what they have

1496
00:55:45,180 --> 00:55:42,490
discussed and even more than that

1497
00:55:46,710 --> 00:55:45,190
based on Carlton's lers background based

1498
00:55:48,690 --> 00:55:46,720
on the things that he did based on the

1499
00:55:50,579 --> 00:55:48,700
fact that he was imprisoned in a

1500
00:55:52,020 --> 00:55:50,589
prisoner of war camp a lot of things

1501
00:55:53,730 --> 00:55:52,030
that look a little suspicious to me I

1502
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:53,740
started to ask the question what if

1503
00:55:58,980 --> 00:55:55,690
Carlton's leur was an agent of the

1504
00:56:01,500 --> 00:55:58,990
German government and it was only much

1505
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:01,510
later that I found out that Carlton sir

1506
00:56:07,589 --> 00:56:03,490
actually was receiving money from

1507
00:56:09,049 --> 00:56:07,599
Germany on a monthly basis he was being

1508
00:56:13,380 --> 00:56:09,059
paid for something

1509
00:56:15,539 --> 00:56:13,390
so all of that is true so the only you

1510
00:56:16,950 --> 00:56:15,549
know fictional aspect of us is that he

1511
00:56:19,319 --> 00:56:16,960
met Lovecraft and they talked about

1512
00:56:21,539 --> 00:56:19,329
raising the dead but everything else I

1513
00:56:24,329 --> 00:56:21,549
thought was true so I had Carleton's ler

1514
00:56:27,359 --> 00:56:24,339
as the guy who was the one who killed

1515
00:56:29,729 --> 00:56:27,369
George angel professor George angel on

1516
00:56:31,650 --> 00:56:29,739
the docks at Newport that yet the

1517
00:56:33,839 --> 00:56:31,660
dachshund Providence from the Newport

1518
00:56:35,999 --> 00:56:33,849
ferry which is in the call of cthulhu so

1519
00:56:37,349 --> 00:56:36,009
I put all of that together and you know

1520
00:56:39,690 --> 00:56:37,359
I bring him together with George

1521
00:56:42,089 --> 00:56:39,700
Sylvester Viereck who was the German who

1522
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:42,099
was basically in charge of agents in the

1523
00:56:45,359 --> 00:56:43,450
United States at that time for the

1524
00:56:46,859 --> 00:56:45,369
German government who was also a friend

1525
00:56:48,210 --> 00:56:46,869
of Aleister Crowley I mean all of these

1526
00:56:50,309 --> 00:56:48,220
people knew each other it's fascinating

1527
00:56:52,410 --> 00:56:50,319
and they were all somehow involved with

1528
00:56:53,579 --> 00:56:52,420
each other so I just made it I made a

1529
00:56:56,069 --> 00:56:53,589
couple of connections that really

1530
00:56:58,829 --> 00:56:56,079
weren't there in order to move the story

1531
00:57:00,539 --> 00:56:58,839
along but if people are interested in

1532
00:57:02,460 --> 00:57:00,549
history and especially this kind of

1533
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:02,470
offbeat history they're going to find a

1534
00:57:05,970 --> 00:57:04,450
lot of places to start in the Lovecraft

1535
00:57:09,180 --> 00:57:05,980
code because most of what's written

1536
00:57:11,489 --> 00:57:09,190
there as far as specific names and as I

1537
00:57:13,499 --> 00:57:11,499
say dates and places times that's all

1538
00:57:15,660 --> 00:57:13,509
genuine that's all real these the cults

1539
00:57:18,989 --> 00:57:15,670
that I mentioned are with one possible

1540
00:57:21,749 --> 00:57:18,999
exception real so you know everything

1541
00:57:23,849 --> 00:57:21,759
else all the terminology the foreign

1542
00:57:26,370 --> 00:57:23,859
languages the terms that's again all

1543
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:26,380
real so there's a lot there that's real

1544
00:57:29,700 --> 00:57:28,210
you know and the fantasy is only

1545
00:57:32,549 --> 00:57:29,710
stitching these all together into a

1546
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:32,559
narrative mm-hmm yeah I love it and that

1547
00:57:38,009 --> 00:57:35,410
is a nice little loop I'm glad I got to

1548
00:57:39,660 --> 00:57:38,019
ask you about that and so I got to

1549
00:57:40,769 --> 00:57:39,670
switch gears a little bit before we run

1550
00:57:43,039 --> 00:57:40,779
out of time here but I've heard you

1551
00:57:45,900 --> 00:57:43,049
mentioned a potential crossover between

1552
00:57:47,999 --> 00:57:45,910
this book that you just wrote and your

1553
00:57:49,739 --> 00:57:48,009
secret Machines project with Tom DeLonge

1554
00:57:52,130 --> 00:57:49,749
can you elaborate on that project it on

1555
00:57:55,319 --> 00:57:52,140
how it could be related

1556
00:57:57,660 --> 00:57:55,329
well the secret machine project is I

1557
00:58:02,999 --> 00:57:57,670
think as everyone knows now is focused

1558
00:58:04,890 --> 00:58:03,009
on the UFO phenomenon so I have done a

1559
00:58:06,870 --> 00:58:04,900
lot in the last couple of years of

1560
00:58:08,999 --> 00:58:06,880
research in that particular subject

1561
00:58:11,460 --> 00:58:09,009
spoken to a lot of people done a lot of

1562
00:58:13,950 --> 00:58:11,470
of thinking on my own as well and

1563
00:58:15,479 --> 00:58:13,960
analyzing the phenomenon from different

1564
00:58:17,849 --> 00:58:15,489
angles and different points of view in

1565
00:58:19,799 --> 00:58:17,859
ways that I think haven't been done

1566
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:19,809
before or haven't been done enough

1567
00:58:24,780 --> 00:58:22,450
before so there is a kind of

1568
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:24,790
/ because some of the themes in the

1569
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:26,530
Lovecraft code and some of the themes in

1570
00:58:31,170 --> 00:58:29,170
secret machines we're talking about the

1571
00:58:33,300 --> 00:58:31,180
same thing but I can't really go into

1572
00:58:36,329 --> 00:58:33,310
more detail on secret machines I'm sworn

1573
00:58:38,370 --> 00:58:36,339
to secrecy on this especially because of

1574
00:58:40,470 --> 00:58:38,380
the last couple of months events so I'm

1575
00:58:43,230 --> 00:58:40,480
being very careful about that but there

1576
00:58:44,700 --> 00:58:43,240
will be however I am told next month

1577
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:44,710
there's going to be a kind of press

1578
00:58:48,510 --> 00:58:46,210
release that's going to talk about it

1579
00:58:49,829 --> 00:58:48,520
I believe that may change as well

1580
00:58:51,780 --> 00:58:49,839
because things are moving pretty fast

1581
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:51,790
around here but we're looking at you

1582
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:53,650
know the book is coming out in March as

1583
00:58:57,329 --> 00:58:55,570
everyone knows so we're going to be

1584
00:58:59,730 --> 00:58:57,339
talking about it probably at some point

1585
00:59:01,410 --> 00:58:59,740
next year and talking about it a bit

1586
00:59:03,390 --> 00:59:01,420
more in talking about its origins and

1587
00:59:07,140 --> 00:59:03,400
what we're doing but there's three

1588
00:59:09,329 --> 00:59:07,150
volumes coming out of my contribution to

1589
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:09,339
secret machines and Volume one is the

1590
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:11,530
first one obviously coming out in March

1591
00:59:17,069 --> 00:59:14,170
and maybe it as we get closer to the

1592
00:59:18,630 --> 00:59:17,079
data can be more specific but Lovecraft

1593
00:59:20,579 --> 00:59:18,640
code let's look at this way is a

1594
00:59:23,700 --> 00:59:20,589
fictional narrative obviously but it's

1595
00:59:26,099 --> 00:59:23,710
based a great deal on facts and things

1596
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:26,109
that actually happened but secret

1597
00:59:31,140 --> 00:59:27,970
machines is going to be based entirely

1598
00:59:32,700 --> 00:59:31,150
on fact entirely nonfiction fair enough

1599
00:59:35,550 --> 00:59:32,710
and you're right I guess it does get

1600
00:59:37,650 --> 00:59:35,560
kind of sticky with current events if

1601
00:59:39,180 --> 00:59:37,660
you're talking about the clinton network

1602
00:59:42,660 --> 00:59:39,190
and Podesta knees people who had an

1603
00:59:44,130 --> 00:59:42,670
interest in UFOs and also speculation

1604
00:59:45,990 --> 00:59:44,140
but I've had some guests suggest that

1605
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:46,000
the reason that they lost the election

1606
00:59:51,510 --> 00:59:48,730
is because they talked a little too

1607
00:59:55,140 --> 00:59:51,520
boldly about unlocking secrets of area

1608
00:59:58,200 --> 00:59:55,150
51 or Roswell and potentially someone

1609
00:59:59,609 --> 00:59:58,210
with more authority said no you're not

1610
01:00:01,800 --> 00:59:59,619
you're not going to be doing that and

1611
01:00:04,500 --> 01:00:01,810
you know obviously who knows about that

1612
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:04,510
but interesting it's interesting it's

1613
01:00:09,690 --> 01:00:06,250
it's worth speculating about for a while

1614
01:00:10,859 --> 01:00:09,700
anyway I mean it's you know I think that

1615
01:00:13,319 --> 01:00:10,869
administration would have come the

1616
01:00:14,970 --> 01:00:13,329
closest to opening the lid and all of

1617
01:00:17,130 --> 01:00:14,980
this stuff just from what I've been

1618
01:00:19,140 --> 01:00:17,140
hearing and seeing because they have

1619
01:00:21,359 --> 01:00:19,150
been kind of open about it but there

1620
01:00:23,130 --> 01:00:21,369
isn't a huge UFO demographic out there

1621
01:00:24,870 --> 01:00:23,140
that's sort of I don't know who they

1622
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:24,880
were talking to you know as far as if

1623
01:00:28,230 --> 01:00:26,770
this was like politically designed to

1624
01:00:29,790 --> 01:00:28,240
create more votes I doubt that was going

1625
01:00:31,020 --> 01:00:29,800
to work now but I think they were just

1626
01:00:33,030 --> 01:00:31,030
talking about the fact they would just

1627
01:00:34,319 --> 01:00:33,040
like to know and we know that John

1628
01:00:35,730 --> 01:00:34,329
Podesta of course has been open about

1629
01:00:36,270 --> 01:00:35,740
this I mean this is no mystery about it

1630
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:36,280
he would

1631
01:00:40,070 --> 01:00:38,290
like to know as well so I don't know why

1632
01:00:42,030 --> 01:00:40,080
we're not giving up on this on

1633
01:00:44,490 --> 01:00:42,040
disclosure you know one way or the other

1634
01:00:46,500 --> 01:00:44,500
I think you know there's I think it's

1635
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:46,510
necessary but it may not happen the way

1636
01:00:50,130 --> 01:00:48,490
we think and it you know again we're

1637
01:00:52,770 --> 01:00:50,140
getting into realms of speculation and

1638
01:00:55,290 --> 01:00:52,780
I'll save that for later sure sure the

1639
01:00:56,790 --> 01:00:55,300
last thing I wanted to kind of ask you

1640
01:00:59,640 --> 01:00:56,800
about secret machines and you can just

1641
01:01:02,160 --> 01:00:59,650
give no comment if you want but you do

1642
01:01:04,740 --> 01:01:02,170
cast a wide net because you know your

1643
01:01:06,930 --> 01:01:04,750
background seems to be more focused in a

1644
01:01:09,300 --> 01:01:06,940
cult or unseen forces and a lot of your

1645
01:01:11,070 --> 01:01:09,310
work and to me that kind of insinuated

1646
01:01:13,650 --> 01:01:11,080
the possibility that the approach and

1647
01:01:15,750 --> 01:01:13,660
secret machines might get into more how

1648
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:15,760
those areas relate to UFOs rather than

1649
01:01:19,950 --> 01:01:17,410
aliens from space and I noticed that

1650
01:01:21,810 --> 01:01:19,960
secret is spelled with a k and I thought

1651
01:01:23,150 --> 01:01:21,820
maybe that could be a clue to the magic

1652
01:01:24,810 --> 01:01:23,160
connection because it's also sometimes

1653
01:01:32,070 --> 01:01:24,820
spelled that way

1654
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:32,080
any thoughts okay there I love it well I

1655
01:01:38,490 --> 01:01:35,410
am I am anxious to have that come out so

1656
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:38,500
one other thing another kind of random

1657
01:01:44,130 --> 01:01:40,690
one but I've heard you describe the

1658
01:01:46,530 --> 01:01:44,140
Lovecraft view ingest as the Elder Gods

1659
01:01:48,930 --> 01:01:46,540
wanting to make the planet great again

1660
01:01:51,210 --> 01:01:48,940
which right is funny I love that but

1661
01:01:54,300 --> 01:01:51,220
when it comes to current events do you

1662
01:01:57,840 --> 01:01:54,310
see any sinister forces at play

1663
01:02:00,210 --> 01:01:57,850
oh I mean too much to to enumerate

1664
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:00,220
probably I mean I feel like I'm living

1665
01:02:05,610 --> 01:02:03,610
in one of my books now I know it's it's

1666
01:02:07,110 --> 01:02:05,620
it's crazy and it not necessarily

1667
01:02:10,530 --> 01:02:07,120
sinister forces maybe one of the other

1668
01:02:12,930 --> 01:02:10,540
ones so I I feel that I'm I'm you know

1669
01:02:15,300 --> 01:02:12,940
it's in one way it's fascinating because

1670
01:02:18,150 --> 01:02:15,310
you're actually in the midst of an

1671
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:18,160
historical period that could turn out to

1672
01:02:21,390 --> 01:02:20,050
be a disaster but you're you're in the

1673
01:02:22,950 --> 01:02:21,400
midst of it but you're seeing it all

1674
01:02:24,780 --> 01:02:22,960
around you you know you don't know

1675
01:02:27,270 --> 01:02:24,790
exactly what's going to fallout from all

1676
01:02:29,580 --> 01:02:27,280
of this but at the same time I see the

1677
01:02:31,260 --> 01:02:29,590
strains that I've been writing about for

1678
01:02:33,810 --> 01:02:31,270
the last twenty thirty years you know

1679
01:02:35,310 --> 01:02:33,820
sort of moving into place I mean things

1680
01:02:38,550 --> 01:02:35,320
I've been researching since Watergate

1681
01:02:40,290 --> 01:02:38,560
you know of suddenly manifesting in

1682
01:02:42,180 --> 01:02:40,300
different ways in certain ways I see

1683
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:42,190
this you know a cauldron a bubbling

1684
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:44,170
cauldron of all of us it's like we're

1685
01:02:47,610 --> 01:02:45,730
now we're now going to start talking

1686
01:02:49,860 --> 01:02:47,620
about all of it you know it's like

1687
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:49,870
everything is okay to talk about now

1688
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:51,850
every conspiracy theory you can think of

1689
01:02:55,140 --> 01:02:53,890
his fair game you know let's get it all

1690
01:02:57,090 --> 01:02:55,150
out let's talk about everything

1691
01:02:59,490 --> 01:02:57,100
whereas before it was this was not

1692
01:03:02,190 --> 01:02:59,500
mainstream you know this kind of pursuit

1693
01:03:04,350 --> 01:03:02,200
especially mine I mean I was writing I

1694
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:04,360
probably to a very small audience but I

1695
01:03:09,390 --> 01:03:07,690
was trying to to verify everything and

1696
01:03:11,700 --> 01:03:09,400
you know footnote everything and source

1697
01:03:13,740 --> 01:03:11,710
everything meticulously and to build up

1698
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:13,750
to you know this kind of ongoing

1699
01:03:18,270 --> 01:03:16,210
revelation and now I see people just

1700
01:03:20,460 --> 01:03:18,280
sort of you know vomiting it all over

1701
01:03:22,500 --> 01:03:20,470
the place it's like it's weird it's like

1702
01:03:25,020 --> 01:03:22,510
you know it's like living in you know a

1703
01:03:26,370 --> 01:03:25,030
copy of sinister forces and not knowing

1704
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:26,380
how it's going to turn out because you

1705
01:03:29,910 --> 01:03:27,850
know I'm desperately Swit and flipping

1706
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:29,920
pages here and see what the end is I

1707
01:03:34,650 --> 01:03:31,930
mean it's it's like that there's so much

1708
01:03:36,810 --> 01:03:34,660
of that I that I wrote about you know

1709
01:03:38,460 --> 01:03:36,820
from a sort of a distance or academic

1710
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:38,470
kind of objective point of view suddenly

1711
01:03:43,050 --> 01:03:40,810
is you know is all around me I'm waiting

1712
01:03:44,460 --> 01:03:43,060
through it now and trying to figure out

1713
01:03:46,050 --> 01:03:44,470
what am I supposed to make of all of

1714
01:03:47,580 --> 01:03:46,060
this right now so yeah it's fascinating

1715
01:03:50,430 --> 01:03:47,590
it's a fascinating that nothing else

1716
01:03:52,590 --> 01:03:50,440
it's fascinating yeah cheers to that and

1717
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:52,600
to relate current events back to this

1718
01:03:57,600 --> 01:03:55,570
fish or in fibia Scott archetype have

1719
01:03:59,940 --> 01:03:57,610
you looked into this idea that the frog

1720
01:04:01,260 --> 01:03:59,950
headed Egyptian deity Keck influenced

1721
01:04:03,150 --> 01:04:01,270
the election through the Pepe the Frog

1722
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:03,160
meme I mean it's weird but it's got a

1723
01:04:08,220 --> 01:04:05,410
very Levin - threat of synchronicities

1724
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:08,230
that really make it them twice yeah I

1725
01:04:11,940 --> 01:04:10,210
kind of looked at it you know I mean

1726
01:04:14,250 --> 01:04:11,950
obviously people were mentioning it to

1727
01:04:16,500 --> 01:04:14,260
me and trying to make me weigh in on it

1728
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:16,510
of course and I'm looking at thinking

1729
01:04:21,180 --> 01:04:18,970
what the hell is supposed to make out of

1730
01:04:22,890 --> 01:04:21,190
this so again it's one of those things

1731
01:04:24,900 --> 01:04:22,900
like the Khazar is I'm kind of pulling

1732
01:04:27,150 --> 01:04:24,910
back until I get more information but it

1733
01:04:28,590 --> 01:04:27,160
is it is bizarre I mean it's totally

1734
01:04:30,030 --> 01:04:28,600
bizarre where did it come from was that

1735
01:04:32,370 --> 01:04:30,040
one of the 4chan things originally I

1736
01:04:35,310 --> 01:04:32,380
don't know yes it was okay there you go

1737
01:04:37,410 --> 01:04:35,320
well alright sure yeah well but just the

1738
01:04:39,780 --> 01:04:37,420
things in a nutshell that I think are

1739
01:04:41,970 --> 01:04:39,790
interesting is of course they say Keck

1740
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:41,980
is Egyptian personification of

1741
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:44,290
primordial chaos Trump would be the

1742
01:04:48,870 --> 01:04:46,570
chaos candidate for Chan is a chaos

1743
01:04:50,910 --> 01:04:48,880
environment and of all the little

1744
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:50,920
synchronicities the opal also both

1745
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:52,450
candidates mentioned it of all the

1746
01:04:56,130 --> 01:04:54,130
things going on the election to have

1747
01:04:58,530 --> 01:04:56,140
this little stupid frog meme reach the

1748
01:05:00,150 --> 01:04:58,540
heights of Hillary commenting on it and

1749
01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:00,160
Trump retweeting it I mean if you're

1750
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:02,050
going to talk about influence it made it

1751
01:05:07,740 --> 01:05:06,010
top on both sides oh yeah what one last

1752
01:05:10,650 --> 01:05:07,750
little synchronicity apparently it seems

1753
01:05:13,590 --> 01:05:10,660
to be the earliest one back in the 90s

1754
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:13,600
there was a PC game Trump's real estate

1755
01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:16,210
tycoon where the player goes up against

1756
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:19,690
Trump in a monopoly style game of real

1757
01:05:23,220 --> 01:05:21,370
estate trying to bankrupt the Trump

1758
01:05:24,690 --> 01:05:23,230
Empire and now at the beginning of the

1759
01:05:28,500 --> 01:05:24,700
game you get to choose between just a

1760
01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:28,510
few fake corporations to go up against

1761
01:05:33,780 --> 01:05:30,570
Trump and one of those corporations is

1762
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:33,790
Pepe and its symbol is a winding road

1763
01:05:40,260 --> 01:05:36,850
and I don't know but it's interesting

1764
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:40,270
man oh it is for sure I mean but you

1765
01:05:43,050 --> 01:05:41,770
know I think everybody's taken that in

1766
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:43,060
the running with it so they probably

1767
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:44,890
don't meet no need a lot of input from

1768
01:05:48,450 --> 01:05:46,930
me on this I think they're doing a good

1769
01:05:50,220 --> 01:05:48,460
job on their own so I'm going to stay

1770
01:05:52,020 --> 01:05:50,230
off off the radar on that one for a

1771
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:52,030
while until I can get a better feel for

1772
01:05:54,630 --> 01:05:52,450
it

1773
01:05:56,940 --> 01:05:54,640
fair and that's kind of the nature of

1774
01:05:58,890 --> 01:05:56,950
these synchronicities is they're so open

1775
01:06:00,570 --> 01:05:58,900
to interpretation and skeptics can look

1776
01:06:02,550 --> 01:06:00,580
at all of it and say this is all

1777
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:02,560
[\h__\h] yeah but when you stack them up

1778
01:06:08,010 --> 01:06:06,010
it gets harder and harder yeah yeah man

1779
01:06:10,020 --> 01:06:08,020
all right well I could bounce weird

1780
01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:10,030
questions off you all day but that does

1781
01:06:13,410 --> 01:06:11,170
pretty much get us to the finish line

1782
01:06:14,970 --> 01:06:13,420
here I really appreciate it you are one

1783
01:06:16,530 --> 01:06:14,980
of the great minds of our time before I

1784
01:06:18,210 --> 01:06:16,540
cut you loose would you like to give the

1785
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:18,220
people any added information about the

1786
01:06:23,570 --> 01:06:19,930
book your other projects or how people

1787
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:23,580
can further scratch the Levin ditch that

1788
01:06:29,970 --> 01:06:28,090
sounds obscene well of course all my

1789
01:06:32,370 --> 01:06:29,980
books are obviously available in Amazon

1790
01:06:35,580 --> 01:06:32,380
and Barnes & Noble sites and things like

1791
01:06:37,890 --> 01:06:35,590
that and I have Peter Levin dot-com I've

1792
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:37,900
been posting recently on their on on

1793
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:39,970
some recent events and my one of my

1794
01:06:43,890 --> 01:06:42,010
latest is on the alternative media but

1795
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:43,900
also Colonia Dignidad documents were

1796
01:06:49,380 --> 01:06:46,810
just released a day or two ago about

1797
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:49,390
that weird place I visited in Chile with

1798
01:06:52,710 --> 01:06:51,250
all the Nazis and all the rest of it and

1799
01:06:55,620 --> 01:06:52,720
more information has come to light about

1800
01:06:58,680 --> 01:06:55,630
it so I posted about that on Peter Levin

1801
01:07:01,380 --> 01:06:58,690
dot-com it's useful to look at and for

1802
01:07:03,690 --> 01:07:01,390
my sins I'm now on Facebook yes I'm on

1803
01:07:07,620 --> 01:07:03,700
Facebook so you can find me there as

1804
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:07,630
well try not to be too too too mean or

1805
01:07:12,090 --> 01:07:09,370
too evil thank you very much

1806
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:12,100
fair enough awesome well always a

1807
01:07:15,210 --> 01:07:13,450
pleasure I always learn something new

1808
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:15,220
from you and you really make me feel

1809
01:07:18,210 --> 01:07:15,970
like I have

1810
01:07:20,460 --> 01:07:18,220
have a lot more learning to do for

1811
01:07:21,089 --> 01:07:20,470
myself so thanks again and keep doing

1812
01:07:24,089 --> 01:07:21,099
what you do

1813
01:07:26,130 --> 01:07:24,099
sorry about that you're quite welcome

1814
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:26,140
thanks a lot for having me you got it

1815
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:29,170
take care Peter Levin de people all

1816
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:29,770
right

1817
01:07:35,190 --> 01:07:32,410
how happy are we I show of the year one

1818
01:07:37,020 --> 01:07:35,200
of my favorite guests new material for

1819
01:07:39,750 --> 01:07:37,030
the higher side chats most definitely

1820
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:39,760
can't argue with that I really love the

1821
01:07:43,830 --> 01:07:42,250
spin on the Middle Eastern conflict I

1822
01:07:46,109 --> 01:07:43,840
find it very intriguing to think that

1823
01:07:48,780 --> 01:07:46,119
because it's a hotbed for esoteric

1824
01:07:50,730 --> 01:07:48,790
knowledge that is really the underlying

1825
01:07:53,339 --> 01:07:50,740
motivation that fuels a lot of these

1826
01:07:56,130 --> 01:07:53,349
issues and interference in the region

1827
01:07:58,080 --> 01:07:56,140
it's very provocative right that we talk

1828
01:08:00,750 --> 01:07:58,090
about the great loss of Native American

1829
01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:00,760
magical traditions and we wax poetic

1830
01:08:04,890 --> 01:08:03,250
about forgotten Gnostics and this is

1831
01:08:06,570 --> 01:08:04,900
happening right here in the modern world

1832
01:08:08,940 --> 01:08:06,580
and we're missing it definitely

1833
01:08:10,380 --> 01:08:08,950
something to think about I was a little

1834
01:08:12,780 --> 01:08:10,390
nervous preparing for a show based

1835
01:08:15,599 --> 01:08:12,790
around a novel but it went really really

1836
01:08:17,309 --> 01:08:15,609
well in the end I think I'm glad I got

1837
01:08:20,220 --> 01:08:17,319
to ask him about the idea that major

1838
01:08:22,380 --> 01:08:20,230
alien or cryptid centric events could be

1839
01:08:24,090 --> 01:08:22,390
more based on ritual workings

1840
01:08:27,090 --> 01:08:24,100
kudos to Chris Knowles for making such a

1841
01:08:29,550 --> 01:08:27,100
great case in regards to Roswell I think

1842
01:08:32,309 --> 01:08:29,560
that was in the plush show but of course

1843
01:08:35,789 --> 01:08:32,319
we go deeper in the second hour we talk

1844
01:08:39,380 --> 01:08:35,799
about so much more various ways entity

1845
01:08:41,729 --> 01:08:39,390
influence could manifest synchronicities

1846
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:41,739
afro-caribbean magic traditions all

1847
01:08:45,510 --> 01:08:43,810
kinds of good stuff and hopefully he'll

1848
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:45,520
come back to talk about secret machines

1849
01:08:49,890 --> 01:08:48,130
when the time is right but hopefully you

1850
01:08:51,900 --> 01:08:49,900
all had a great year despite all the

1851
01:08:53,820 --> 01:08:51,910
internet memes about how terrible it was

1852
01:08:56,670 --> 01:08:53,830
it was one of the best years of my life

1853
01:08:58,860 --> 01:08:56,680
on a personal level I gotta say I got

1854
01:09:00,209 --> 01:08:58,870
engaged did some traveling reached a new

1855
01:09:02,340 --> 01:09:00,219
level of security with my little

1856
01:09:04,499 --> 01:09:02,350
independent show here and I think the

1857
01:09:06,360 --> 01:09:04,509
key is to stop thinking about events as

1858
01:09:08,490 --> 01:09:06,370
things that happened to you and instead

1859
01:09:10,950 --> 01:09:08,500
realize you truly do make everything

1860
01:09:13,320 --> 01:09:10,960
happen you never had a shitty job you

1861
01:09:15,539 --> 01:09:13,330
didn't apply for he never got trapped in

1862
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:15,549
debt you didn't sign up for nobody got a

1863
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:17,770
shitty body they didn't feed junk to and

1864
01:09:22,170 --> 01:09:20,410
if you didn't like 2016 think about all

1865
01:09:25,289 --> 01:09:22,180
the hours of media you might have

1866
01:09:28,110 --> 01:09:25,299
consumed all the time wasted on social

1867
01:09:29,550 --> 01:09:28,120
platforms those are choices and how we

1868
01:09:31,980 --> 01:09:29,560
spend our time

1869
01:09:34,500 --> 01:09:31,990
so if you feel behind go out there and

1870
01:09:37,890 --> 01:09:34,510
make life happen don't just wait for it

1871
01:09:39,420 --> 01:09:37,900
to come to you that's what I'd say it's

1872
01:09:41,460 --> 01:09:39,430
a much more empowering way to look at

1873
01:09:43,620 --> 01:09:41,470
life and of course what works for me

1874
01:09:45,390 --> 01:09:43,630
won't work for everyone either way you

1875
01:09:46,830 --> 01:09:45,400
know I love you guys thanks for a great

1876
01:09:48,090 --> 01:09:46,840
year of support I hope you got

1877
01:09:50,490 --> 01:09:48,100
everything you'd want out of this

1878
01:09:52,980 --> 01:09:50,500
podcast and more and we got plenty of

1879
01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:52,990
weird roads to walk down in 2017 I'm

1880
01:09:57,030 --> 01:09:54,970
sure so I'll see you on the other side

1881
01:09:59,040 --> 01:09:57,040
drink a little drink smoke a little

1882
01:09:59,520 --> 01:09:59,050
smoke stay safe and have a happy new

1883
01:10:01,560 --> 01:09:59,530
year

1884
01:10:06,970 --> 01:10:01,570
your move middle east meddlers and

1885
01:12:20,090 --> 01:10:33,290
[Music]

1886
01:12:48,610 --> 01:12:27,090
I can't

1887
01:12:48,620 --> 01:12:55,900
[Music]

1888
01:12:58,260 --> 01:12:57,350
maybe

1889
01:13:14,700 --> 01:12:58,270
in

1890
01:13:14,710 --> 01:13:19,910
[Music]

1891
01:13:23,820 --> 01:13:22,230
hey guys thanks for listening to the

1892
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:23,830
first hour of the higher side chats

1893
01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:26,170
podcast with me Greg Carl wood if you

1894
01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:28,210
don't know there is a second hour to all

1895
01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:30,610
the episodes we do around here generally

1896
01:13:34,020 --> 01:13:32,290
we're able to get a lot deeper into the

1897
01:13:36,030 --> 01:13:34,030
topics and ideas that a guest is about

1898
01:13:39,150 --> 01:13:36,040
so if you enjoyed what you've heard from

1899
01:13:41,370 --> 01:13:39,160
THC for free consider signing up at the

1900
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:41,380
higher side chats plus com to get the

1901
01:13:45,660 --> 01:13:43,330
second hour of the 5 shows I put

1902
01:13:47,550 --> 01:13:45,670
together each month I never really

1903
01:13:49,260 --> 01:13:47,560
wanted to be a paid subscriber podcast

1904
01:13:51,270 --> 01:13:49,270
but I really hate the idea of spending

1905
01:13:53,370 --> 01:13:51,280
airtime promoting some product that's

1906
01:13:55,020 --> 01:13:53,380
completely unrelated and telling you the

1907
01:13:57,810 --> 01:13:55,030
best way to support the show is to buy

1908
01:13:59,490 --> 01:13:57,820
an audio book or new underwear by mail

1909
01:14:02,010 --> 01:13:59,500
or something crazy like that so instead

1910
01:14:03,510 --> 01:14:02,020
if you like the show double your time

1911
01:14:05,730 --> 01:14:03,520
with it for five bucks a month and let's

1912
01:14:07,380 --> 01:14:05,740
cut out all the other [\h__\h] it's half the

1913
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:07,390
price of a movie ticket and you get at

1914
01:14:11,760 --> 01:14:09,130
least an extra five hours of show a

1915
01:14:13,560 --> 01:14:11,770
month collectively it keeps us stable

1916
01:14:15,150 --> 01:14:13,570
and it frees me from wasting your time

1917
01:14:17,700 --> 01:14:15,160
with anything but the show you came to

1918
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:17,710
listen to it's really the only way for

1919
01:14:21,480 --> 01:14:19,690
an independent one-man show to make it

1920
01:14:23,730 --> 01:14:21,490
and I do what I can so that it's worth

1921
01:14:25,710 --> 01:14:23,740
your while since we started this I've

1922
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:25,720
always tried to use the subscriptions to

1923
01:14:30,270 --> 01:14:27,730
improve the podcast and make signups

1924
01:14:32,190 --> 01:14:30,280
more advantageous it started with just a

1925
01:14:33,870 --> 01:14:32,200
second hour for the main show but now

1926
01:14:35,910 --> 01:14:33,880
we've got a nice forum going where

1927
01:14:37,650 --> 01:14:35,920
people can get deeper in conversation

1928
01:14:40,530 --> 01:14:37,660
about the episodes with other listeners

1929
01:14:42,780 --> 01:14:40,540
submit a candidate in the guest request

1930
01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:42,790
thread or share their own personal

1931
01:14:46,530 --> 01:14:44,290
projects to get out of the soul-crushing

1932
01:14:49,140 --> 01:14:46,540
nine-to-five cog in the wheel life on

1933
01:14:50,820 --> 01:14:49,150
the entrepreneurs thread the forum in

1934
01:14:52,500 --> 01:14:50,830
the Plus comments are always the first

1935
01:14:54,750 --> 01:14:52,510
places I try to go for listener

1936
01:14:57,150 --> 01:14:54,760
engagement but it does get harder as the

1937
01:14:58,980 --> 01:14:57,160
show gets more popular because of that

1938
01:15:00,420 --> 01:14:58,990
there's also a direct messaging feature

1939
01:15:03,270 --> 01:15:00,430
that you can use to reach me through the

1940
01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:03,280
plus site also but beyond the forum if

1941
01:15:07,080 --> 01:15:04,810
you like any of the music I've used for

1942
01:15:08,850 --> 01:15:07,090
THC most of it I've hired artists to

1943
01:15:11,130 --> 01:15:08,860
make and I provided all as free

1944
01:15:12,570 --> 01:15:11,140
downloads to plus members too so if you

1945
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:12,580
like a particular song you've heard

1946
01:15:17,100 --> 01:15:14,770
close the show out recently come get the

1947
01:15:19,140 --> 01:15:17,110
mp3 I should also mention that if you

1948
01:15:21,480 --> 01:15:19,150
don't like the idea of paying $5

1949
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:21,490
recurring every month I get that you can

1950
01:15:26,010 --> 01:15:23,650
buy three months six months or a year

1951
01:15:27,750 --> 01:15:26,020
upfront and just be done with it I have

1952
01:15:30,300 --> 01:15:27,760
plenty of listeners who send checks and

1953
01:15:31,450 --> 01:15:30,310
money orders to the PIO box too I try to

1954
01:15:33,340 --> 01:15:31,460
make it as easy for people

1955
01:15:35,410 --> 01:15:33,350
as I can and you can read more about it

1956
01:15:37,959 --> 01:15:35,420
on the signup page also be sure to check

1957
01:15:39,670 --> 01:15:37,969
out the FAQ help page on the plus site

1958
01:15:40,650 --> 01:15:39,680
if you have any questions or concerns

1959
01:15:42,700 --> 01:15:40,660
about how to listen to a

1960
01:15:44,590 --> 01:15:42,710
password-protected show on your devices

1961
01:15:46,870 --> 01:15:44,600
I've highlighted a lot of great

1962
01:15:48,940 --> 01:15:46,880
solutions and one of those would be the

1963
01:15:51,459 --> 01:15:48,950
iPhone app that just recently hit the

1964
01:15:53,620 --> 01:15:51,469
Apple App Store a super kind and

1965
01:15:55,450 --> 01:15:53,630
talented listener made it for us and you

1966
01:15:57,610 --> 01:15:55,460
can use it to stream or download either

1967
01:16:00,580 --> 01:15:57,620
the free or the plus show if you're on

1968
01:16:02,170 --> 01:16:00,590
Android I'd use pocket casts or podcast

1969
01:16:04,750 --> 01:16:02,180
addict and subscribe to the feed

1970
01:16:07,450 --> 01:16:04,760
manually that way I also try to throw an

1971
01:16:09,430 --> 01:16:07,460
occasional bonus shows or QA shows and

1972
01:16:11,620 --> 01:16:09,440
I've got a few other weird ideas I might

1973
01:16:13,570 --> 01:16:11,630
get to try out soon but I give you all I

1974
01:16:15,250 --> 01:16:13,580
can for five bucks and I hope you'll at

1975
01:16:16,959 --> 01:16:15,260
least give it a shot if you've listened

1976
01:16:18,700 --> 01:16:16,969
to a few free shows and you find them

1977
01:16:20,500 --> 01:16:18,710
unique or valuable I know there's a lot

1978
01:16:22,660 --> 01:16:20,510
of podcasts out there and I'm just one

1979
01:16:24,459 --> 01:16:22,670
of them but if you have any questions

1980
01:16:25,900 --> 01:16:24,469
concerns or comments about any of this

1981
01:16:28,870 --> 01:16:25,910
please get in touch with us at the

1982
01:16:30,790 --> 01:16:28,880
higher side chats team at gmail.com I

1983
01:16:32,200 --> 01:16:30,800
also wanted to plug the higher side

1984
01:16:34,030 --> 01:16:32,210
newsletter I'm going to be putting out

1985
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:34,040
totally free for anyone who wants to

1986
01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:36,530
sign up at the main internet website for

1987
01:16:40,570 --> 01:16:38,690
the show the higher side chats com

1988
01:16:42,340 --> 01:16:40,580
you can also get on that email list

1989
01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:42,350
through the higher side chats Facebook

1990
01:16:45,850 --> 01:16:44,090
page there's a button there as well

1991
01:16:48,340 --> 01:16:45,860
but the reason I'm doing this is because

1992
01:16:50,470 --> 01:16:48,350
I get tons and tons of emails after a

1993
01:16:52,510 --> 01:16:50,480
show goes up asking me about how I feel

1994
01:16:54,100 --> 01:16:52,520
about a particular guest or topic and

1995
01:16:56,140 --> 01:16:54,110
the wrap-up isn't always the best place

1996
01:16:58,180 --> 01:16:56,150
to do that especially if I have anything

1997
01:17:00,040 --> 01:16:58,190
negative to say sometimes the dust needs

1998
01:17:02,530 --> 01:17:00,050
to settle sometimes they need to hear

1999
01:17:04,090 --> 01:17:02,540
feedback from you guys first there are a

2000
01:17:05,709 --> 01:17:04,100
lot of factors but I usually have

2001
01:17:08,140 --> 01:17:05,719
something to communicate to you and I

2002
01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:08,150
just don't get to do it so on the first

2003
01:17:10,150 --> 01:17:08,690
of the month

2004
01:17:11,950 --> 01:17:10,160
I plan to send out a little newsletter

2005
01:17:14,050 --> 01:17:11,960
with my thoughts about the five shows

2006
01:17:16,060 --> 01:17:14,060
the previous month and talk to you about

2007
01:17:18,430 --> 01:17:16,070
anything else that's on my mind or

2008
01:17:19,959 --> 01:17:18,440
that's going on and what's probably most

2009
01:17:21,970 --> 01:17:19,969
enticing is that I'm going to give you

2010
01:17:24,160 --> 01:17:21,980
some insight into at least one guest I

2011
01:17:25,900 --> 01:17:24,170
have coming up in the month which people

2012
01:17:28,180 --> 01:17:25,910
have been begging for some posted

2013
01:17:30,310 --> 01:17:28,190
schedule for a long time I personally

2014
01:17:32,110 --> 01:17:30,320
think I'd like the surprise but sign up

2015
01:17:33,640 --> 01:17:32,120
for the higher side newsletter it's free

2016
01:17:35,260 --> 01:17:33,650
it comes out on the first of the month

2017
01:17:37,750 --> 01:17:35,270
and I won't waste your time with any

2018
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:37,760
other emails and that's it I appreciate

2019
01:17:41,860 --> 01:17:39,890
you listening I try to give alternative

2020
01:17:44,380 --> 01:17:41,870
ideas and guests a fair shake on a

2021
01:17:45,310 --> 01:17:44,390
high-quality podcast expose some deep

2022
01:17:47,350 --> 01:17:45,320
level conspiracy

2023
01:17:49,030 --> 01:17:47,360
he's without the yelling and I hope to

2024
01:17:51,160 --> 01:17:49,040
offer some inspiration that even though

2025
01:17:52,569 --> 01:17:51,170
the system relentlessly suggests you

2026
01:17:54,850 --> 01:17:52,579
should follow their blueprint to

2027
01:17:57,220 --> 01:17:54,860
mediocrity you can do your own thing and

2028
01:17:59,350 --> 01:17:57,230
live a much happier life despite all the